Infamous Quests

Public Forums => Banter and Chit-Chat! => Topic started by: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 11:14:14 AM

Title: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 11:14:14 AM: Well - it's really going into full swing. The Kickstarter Blues.

I'm seeing more and more larger projects go up to the plate for a big swing - and coming back wanting pretty hard.

A lot of us knew this was coming; the budgets asked by people for Kickstarters started getting out of control, and the system (and fans) couldn't sustain it. It sucks, because there's a few projects out there I'd love see succeed - but I just don't think they have the chutzpah to raise the hundreds of thousands of dollars they want for it.

Our little project got lucky - sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to it. I'd like to think we did a good job - presenting information, having a decent playable demo and I tried to be available for people and to put a face to our group.

So - most of the people here are Kickstarter veterans. What do you think of the current KS trends?

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lupin on August 28, 2012, 12:02:03 PM: It is exactly as you say, there are some project's out there that are just asking too much. I think part of the reason might be because Kickstarter has proven to be so successful with quite a lot of large budgets. Tim Schafer's project famously raising over $3 million. So people think that "If $3 million can be raised, so could $50,000" not realising that in those cases, there were huge fans of the people behind such projects, so that is why the money was raised.

But naturally, there is also the fact that crowdfunding is an easy way out for a lot of people. Rather then go to the banks and get a loan, or investors into your project, you can plead to the public with minor rewards offered.

But then, I really only look at the books and games sections of Kickstarter, so I do not know what the rest of the projects are asking for and offering in return.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on August 28, 2012, 12:24:20 PM: The biggest problem is that Kickstarter fatigue has slowly been setting in. Lots of people want to back lots of projects, but most of them are so close to each other. Add to that the fact that some projects are asking for a LOT of money. I'm backing Through the Fire, which is a movie project being done by Michael Dorn and a few other Star Trek alums. They're asking for $750K, an amount that seems like too much. They're not doing so well. Even smaller projects like Reincarnation and Detective Grimoire had a hard time selling their products. After the School for Heroes project comes and goes I'm pretty much tapped out. I really should have stopped after QFI, to tell you the truth.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on August 28, 2012, 12:29:30 PM: I think there's something to be said also for the amount of high-profile projects that were technically abusing what Kickstarter was supposed to be all about. First you had Jane Jensen's "Send me a ton of money to launch a studio that might create an as-yet-unspecified adventure game," and then the worst of it was the Penny Arcade Kickstarter to make their site ad-free, which was basically the Penny Arcade guys playing a joke at Kickstarter's expense--except that they gladly took the money when it turned out to be successful. That project, for me, was the moment that Kickstarter itself essentially sold out---they allowed the project, which was a blatant violation of their Terms of Use, to go forward because Penny Arcade was a high profile company and they knew they'd get a nice fat cut of the funds raised. That kind of shit gives the whole crowd-funding process a bad name, and makes people not want to support it.

Frankly, I think Kickstarter itself is kind of full of shit--but it did work out well for us, though, so I guess I can't be too irritated by it. Then again, we are EXACTLY the type of gaming project that Kickstarter was created to support, so go figure.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 02:30:15 PM: Oh yeah - I forgot about that Penny Arcade debacle. That was $528,000+ of public shaming of Kickstarter. Which meant $25,000 for Kickstarter themselves. Think of that. OUYA made 8,000,000+ - that's a whopping $400,000 cut for them! Their 5% cut of OUYA was more than many projects made!!!!

Yeah - I feel bad, because "the little guys" get boned on this.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on August 28, 2012, 02:47:22 PM: Yeah, totally. Though OUYA's success was more than merited, in my opinion. It's a great concept--a console specifically designed for ease of development of indie projects. I look forward to seeing what we can eventually do with it. You got your hands on one, didn't you, Steve? Or at least, you've got one coming? I forget.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 02:55:57 PM: Oh, yeah - I loved OUYA's project, and I definitely got my hands on one of those. I didn't have a problem with that project - I was just reminded that for every successful Kickstarter Campaign, KS makes a sweet cut of money. So of course they'd let something like Penny Arcade run on there.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Collector on August 28, 2012, 03:13:28 PM: Except that some profits or cost cutting can be detrimental to the future of a business. Taking on something that can sour people on your business can put an end to it.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 03:20:57 PM: Quote from: Collector on August 28, 2012, 03:13:28 PM
Except that some profits or cost cutting can be detrimental to the future of a business. Taking on something that can sour people on your business can put an end to it.

Absolutely - Kickstarter themselves can only profit from this for so long, until the bubble bursts.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lupin on August 28, 2012, 05:03:40 PM: Quote from: Intendant S on August 28, 2012, 12:24:20 PM
The biggest problem is that Kickstarter fatigue has slowly been setting in. Lots of people want to back lots of projects, but most of them are so close to each other.

This is something that I agree with so much, but yet there isn't anything we can do about it. There are a lot of projects that I wanted to support and wanted to donate a lot of money to, but all of their finish dates ended up within the same two week period and I couldn't afford to do all of them. But that is just bad timing on the project start dates

Does anyone else find it annoying when celebrities make Kickstarter campaigns for things they should be able to either afford themselves or at least get the money through other means due to their celeb status. I remember Whoopi Goldberg did a Kickstarter, I can't remember the details, something about honouring one of the first female black comedians. Now nothing against Whoopi personally, I think she is a well respected woman and I have enjoyed many of her roles, but why does she need Kickstarter for something like this?

Kickstarter used to be for people, such as you guys at Infamous Quests, to raise money for various small projects, and that maybe we could have some input on. Now it seems to become just an easy way to make money for people.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on August 28, 2012, 05:19:55 PM: Right on.

Like I said, it's being exploited by people who either don't need it, or shouldn't be using it given the nature of their "projects," and people are starting to catch onto that. And this exploitation is being embraced by the company itself. By not being stricter about their own rules, Kickstarter is signaling it's own death knell.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 05:49:04 PM: Yeah - that kind of stuff does make me mad - if I could have funded QFI myself, I would have. Fortunately, we had the support of an amazing community. If I had the kind of success Whoopi Goldberg has, and I wanted to work on a passion project, you're damn right I'm putting up my own money.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Monster on August 28, 2012, 10:25:54 PM: You guys all make great points.

Particularly this one:
Quote from: Lambonius on August 28, 2012, 12:29:30 PM
we are EXACTLY the type of gaming project that Kickstarter was created to support, so go figure.
I didn't get in on the KickStarter (unfortunately for me), because I found out about it roughly a day or two after it ended. Hadn't been around since April or so before that. I do, however, plan to purchase a copy of QfI, and to support future projects by IQ. This is not only because you guys are the kind of team that needs the funding, but you're also making games that are worth the investment.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: SarahLiz on August 29, 2012, 04:59:17 PM: Quote from: Lambonius on August 28, 2012, 05:19:55 PM
Right on.

Like I said, it's being exploited by people who either don't need it, or shouldn't be using it given the nature of their "projects," and people are starting to catch onto that. And this exploitation is being embraced by the company itself. By not being stricter about their own rules, Kickstarter is signaling it's own death knell.

See, this is exactly why I don't ever check Kickstarter anymore (unless it is a link that someone has suggested on these boards). I feel like so many people are becoming a bit greedy & not using it for the "right" reasons now. Ha, that and because after my pledge to QFI, the husband kinda flipped his lid. I expected no less from him though because he will never get the passon I have for old-school adventure games. (We just have to amicably agree to disagree.) Anyway, although I happily wanted to support the making of this game, I haven't really seen anything else so far on KS that quite caught my fancy the same way since. And to be honest, a lot of the "goal" amounts are so high that it kinda puts me off...
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on August 30, 2012, 07:57:31 AM: Sarah - thanks for such kind words about our game. You know, we really are just a small group of independent workers - we may not have raised as much money as other Kickstarters, but every dollar pledged MEANT something to us. (Not to say it didn't to others.) I can honestly say to us - every bit counted. Every dollar we made was not just financial backing, but it was an active way of sayin 'we support you and we believe in these games'.

I know that our game is going to be amazing - we've got an amazing team, and even now - it's exciting to see progress on the game.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: nidoking on August 30, 2012, 05:45:52 PM: I don't really jump to support many of the recent Kickstarters because they don't offer awesome rewards for big donations. Okay, copies of the thing you're making are a given, and T-shirts and collectible toys are nice, but how many of them let you be a part of the magic? I think if more of these groups would let me be part of the team, I'd go broke. Most of the top tier rewards are things like invitations to parties I wouldn't be able to attend anyway, or large props that I don't have room to store.

There is also the factor of how much I've paid so far. It takes something pretty promising to get that much money out of me. In the end, I donate a bit to the Kickstarters of games that interest me, usually just enough to get the game and any rewards that look both interesting and claimable, once it looks like they're going to reach their goal. Or enough to get an Ouya and second controller two hours before the deadline.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on August 30, 2012, 06:54:32 PM: The few KSers i have supported are only the ones i have confidence that will make a unique and special game. Helping out indie devs is all well and good but what pisses me off are those who a. are millionaires already and want the poor folks money and b. some KS really have no set plan to make the game. They just say "give us the money and we will make a game." I supported folks like the Two Guys, Jane Jenson, Replay, and most importantly Infamous Quests because i Know they will make unique and special old school adventure games. :)

Rewards for KS is cool but as a have said in the past i rather see my money go to make a special game.

The biggest KS i have seen is a company that is building a watch that is bluetooth comp will your smartphone. Pretty neat idea. However it gonna cost like 200 bucks, don't know if i can justify spending that kind of money for a neat watch.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 03, 2012, 08:43:15 PM: Quote from: Blackthorne on August 28, 2012, 11:14:14 AM
Our little project got lucky - sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to it. I'd like to think we did a good job - presenting information, having a decent playable demo and I tried to be available for people and to put a face to our group.

Two thoughts here, followed by a lemma. Pretty good post-mortem analysis has been done by project creators learning from the "school of hard knocks", including projects whose funding goal was met. There's the reward fulfilment piece (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/starcommand/star-command-sci-fi-meets-gamedev-story-for-ios-an/posts/208395) from Warballoon Games (http://www.1up.com/news/star-command-kickstarter-funding-quickly-disappear) (from the Star Command game project, not to be confused with the "Space Command" film project :-* ), a "how to save your mid-budget, super-hyped, iOS title (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/176187/how_camouflaj_saved_rpubliques_.php)" about Republique (courtesty of Gamasutra, Camouflaj + Logan; spoiler... you save it by making it not an iOS title and calling in media favors that most indie studios can't muster), a "20 ways to screw your Kickstarter game project (http://www.alphacolony.com/20_ways_to_screw_your_kickstarter/)" from the launch of a modern successor to M.U.L.E. (called Alpha Colony), and a good piece by Stoic Studios (http://www.gamesbrief.com/2012/07/kickstarter-after-the-kick-but-before-the-start/) (of "The Banner Saga" fame) about lessons they learned from their experience.

[ Full disclosure: I did not back either of the iOS game projects, and I did back both of the Linux games; The Banner Saga, which funded and looks freaking amazing, and Alpha Colony which was stunted at birth, as detailed in the article. ]

First thought... many of the hallmarks of the successful projects, as well as top advice from the other projects, was present in Quest for Infamy. That is, actual gameplay footage (topped by a playable demo), a solid enthusiastic community rallied around the project from the get-go, and a good pitch video. One overlooked detail is pitch video delivery. Bt, you don't give yourself enough credit! You're able to portray sincerity with a sense of humor, which is a particularly hard balance to strike. Consider; insincere? "What the hell will he do with my money?" Not funny? "If he can't be funny here, why would the game be any better?". Flattery aside, I think most active backers will join me in stating that you've an infectious personality, you're funny, sarcastic, and a genuinely nice guy. Hey, it works for Tim of Legend, so why not? Having a pre-existing fan-community gives you early cheerleaders (those folks that spout nonsense early in the comment thread, burying trolls & answering questions from wayward backers). Personal, nimble, responses to backer questions helped to build trust. All of that is in addition to having a strong, solid game concept with an extraordinarily talented team behind it (a demo of a crappy, humourless game wouldn't have done much for me), to the credit of both Klytos and yourself.

Second thought... critical mass. While it's easy to lambaste big name adventure game designers as, perhaps, overstepping the bounds of what is "independent development", especially noted in the case of Jane Jensen's Pinkerton Road (one game Kickstarted, but the other through some traditional publisher arrangement) and Replay Games (essentially Kickstarting an independent publisher, rather than a developer, as evidenced by the Adventure Mob episode), there is an important aspect of this to consider. These "big names" in adventure gaming have brought enormous attention to Kickstarter in general. In the case of QFI, could we really say that it would have funded as highly as it did without the mass mobilization of Sierra, LucasArts, and Tex Murphy fans, all in one place, and ready for more? Take a peek at QFI's backer's list, and marvel at the number of individuals who backed Double Fine Adventure, Leisure Suit Larry, Pinkerton Road, SpaceVenture, or Tex Murphy first. This leads to my lemma.

You also had hallmarks of successful projects which you may have not expected; that is, some "celebrity" attention from other game devs (like the SpaceVenture guys), which might not have come had you launched some other time (earlier or later). It's not to say that your peers in the game dev community wouldn't have supported you, just that indie devs have been more galvanized this year than I've seen since around the time that the first Humble Indie Bundles were launched, and everyone in-the-know seems to understand how important timing and urgency are, in regards to Kickstarter campaigns.

In my opinion (humble or otherwise), QFI hit the perfect storm. I only wish it were more perfect, and we got that Council filled with portraits, as well as another couple of compatriots for Nidoking to bounce ideas around with.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Klytos on September 04, 2012, 03:39:14 AM: I don't know if it's a "mass mobilisation" of Sierra / Lucas fans as you say. I think it's more than people who support our project, spaceventure, Phoenix Online, Tex Murphy etc are adventure game fans. I mean, I've supported other adventure projects that I thought looked good and to me it's not about mobilising, it's about supporting stuff I love.

As for celebrity endorsement, Scott Murphy is a great guy who is good friends with members of our team. His support through our KS was brilliant and very much appreciated. And I agree, it certainly gave us some good exposure.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 04, 2012, 04:26:48 AM: Don't get me wrong, your campaign was remarkably well put together, and I definitely intended to indicate that fact as the dominant factor. And the most important part of that being a very strong game concept, the next most important being presentation. It was incredibly gratifying (at least to me) to see the staff introductions; it "personalised" the whole project in a compelling way.

I've just never seen adventure gaming fans, with broad studio preference, band together to pour out so many millions of dollars into supporting adventure gaming in a matter of three months or so. Hence, my point was that with the above mentioned strong concept & team, it's my personal feeling that you fine folks at IQ were able to tap into this energy and fulfill a sorely unfulfilled niche at the right time, and to great effect. I, personally, believe that the project deserved any and all "celebrity" promotion, and more! I just don't know whether or not it would have come together this way under other circumstances.

Perhaps my oversimplification of fandom down to two brands was misleading (it was not meant to be); I'm including all of fandom that Kickstarter has pulled out of the woodwork, including all the odd studios that hardly anyone has ever heard of (for example, I've discussed Coktel Vision's catalogue four times in the past months, this for the first time in ten years or so). So, I think that, in addition to QFI's success, a modicum good has come of the "Kickstarter rush", even if it comes at the cost of severely damaging Kickstarter's brand (with which I do agree, at least to an extent). I'm trying to balance the conversation in pointing this out, but you are right that I'm completely hand-waving.

Admittedly, much of my opinion is data drawn from a sample size of one. However if this "mobilisation" (for lack of a better word) is not unprecedented in the past decade, then I'm sorely in need of a history lesson! ;D
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 05, 2012, 02:37:23 PM: I do think we had, as you say, "The Perfect Storm". I do think that adventure game fans have realized that Kickstarter is a great way to fund the kinds of games they love. Unfortunately - all kinds of people have "discovered" Kickstarter too, and now there's a glut of projects with absurd goals... and many are floundering. Like David Crane's Jungle Adventure. The pitch was too vague - and it had a goal of $900,000. As much as I love Pitfall! (It's seriously one of my all time favorite games) it was just.... to vague.

Like I said - we got lucky. Sure, we had a lot of great things going for us, and if we didn't have our shit together like we did, I don't think we would have done as well. I'll just be interested to see how all of us who've benefited from KS this year do in the future.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on September 05, 2012, 04:07:55 PM: I see that Pendulo tried crowd funding on http://www.lab.gamesplanet.com/dayone/ (http://www.lab.gamesplanet.com/dayone/) and don't look like getting anywhere near the required $$$. Wonder if they would have had more luck with a Kickstarter.
Do you think the crowdfunding this will evolve with gaming to where the website that you pledge to will also distribute the game via download when it become available (at least to the backers anyway)? Or do you think distribution needs to be kept separate from funding? Would seem to cut out a lot of cross over admin work.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 06, 2012, 03:21:52 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on September 05, 2012, 02:37:23 PM
I'll just be interested to see how all of us who've benefited from KS this year do in the future.

I desperately want all of my adventure game projects to be successful, if not wildly. QFI is actually the one I'm least concerned about, because I've played it, and it's great. Mind you, it's a slice, and we don't really have much of a window into an overall plot-arc from Demo 1.0, but it's obvious that you'll be able to execute on the game. The physical rewards are another issue. I hope you'll keep us informed about the process involved in putting together the boxed versions and the awesome tchotchkies that go inside it. I do worry a bit about how that whole "reward fulfilment" aspect of KS campaigns. I still haven't given up hope on the idea of a QFG/Sierra style guidebook, with hints masked and revealed via red-cellophane decoder :-)

After QFI, it's Detective Grimoire, since they're really far along (shooting to ship this month), because I've already played the demo, and because they have publisher support via Armor Games. Then, it would be Reincarnation: The Root of All Evil, because I've played about six of his little free Reincarnation games on Newgrounds, have seen some of his behind-the-scenes Youtube videos about doing keyframe animations, and have already received all of my physical rewards (yesterday), so I know he can write/design fun little adventure games.

After them would be Lilly Looking Through, for similar reasons as QFI; I've played a nice demo, and all they have to do to deliver is finish (I'm not getting any physical rewards from them). Also, I've read statements from other Kickstarter backers on other projects that they were able to meet the Hoogendyk's at either GenCon or Dragon*Con, play an extended demo, and that they're really really nice. So, they're sincere and the game is already progressing well. Also, they've given themselves plenty of time (est. release next May).

Then, it would be Broken Sword, since it's a more ambitious project, hence greater chance of failure, but Revolution Software is an established studio with plenty of experience, a dozen titles under their collective belts, and soon, a goodly chunk of change. Right after them, I'd say it would be Tex Murphy, because of precisely the same reasons. They've got a studio ready to go and shipped titles, albeit casual games, and the two (Aaron & Chris) are veteran game designers, as well as having a goodly chunk of change ($600K aught to help).

After that is probably Eric Shofe's The Curse of Shadow House because we've got no forum access to keep up to date, and he hasn't issued any updates in a month, other than some banter on the project comment thread (in which, admittedly, he can be quite verbose; a good thing for Kickstarter updates). He's trying to ship by Halloween, which seems aggressive to me. His project has a smaller scope, though, which will help, and he's hinted at putting game quality above release date, which is good.

It's murky after that... I think Jane Jensen is probably next in my line of worry, since the studio is brand new, and the development work is contracted out, but they have another title (Mystery Game X) with publisher monies, so the studio will probably be in reasonable shape. Plenty can go wrong there, but they should have enough cash to get the job done, and she and her husband are seasoned game development/publishing veterans.

Then, my worry-meter is squarely aimed at SpaceVenture and Jack Houston. Both are trying to build a studio and game from scratch; both have had budgeting problems (the Two Guys are going to face fulfilment issues due to the redonkulous quantity of swag they've promised, and Stacy at Warbird Games got straight-up screwed by a troll backer, to the tune of ten thousand smackers, a fifth of his budget). Both haven't published a game in a long time, and both need a lot of luck to hit it out of the park. I'll do whatever I can to help out, for sure. I'm really keen on those two projects (SpaceVenture being extra special to me).
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 06, 2012, 03:48:07 AM: Quote from: rugged on September 05, 2012, 04:07:55 PM
Do you think the crowdfunding this will evolve with gaming to where the website that you pledge to will also distribute the game via download when it become available (at least to the backers anyway)? Or do you think distribution needs to be kept separate from funding? Would seem to cut out a lot of cross over admin work.

Desura's Alphafunding program works exactly like this, and is working pretty well for Project Zomboid, Xenonauts, and a few other games, but has an even lower profile than Gamesplanet Lab, unfortunately.

I'm personally not a huge fan of the Pendulo style, but I think they could hardly have made a more vague pitch video than for Day One. You literally know nothing about the game other than the fact that it may have a bald main character. After watching it, you have to read the accompanying paragraph to know that it's a dark comedy; but the pitch video wasn't funny :(

Though the new pitch video is a lot better (but I can't understand the parts in Spanish unfortunately), I feel like I remember there being an English version when the project came up on Ulule first, before the Gamesplanet Lab launch, which I did check out, and wasn't appealing.

I think they could do well on Kickstarter with a goal smaller than $360K, but then they may not have enough money to develop a fully-3D adventure game.

Edit: Found the original pitch video...
Quote
[url]http://youtu.be/fZoTLL0mAgs[/url]
Also, it's remarkably challenging to paste a Youtube video URL without it embedding the damn thing >:(
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on September 06, 2012, 03:56:43 AM: I think pendulo had a fairly good start with the original runaway. But that needed to be a launching pad for better products, sadly they haven't delivered. I think 350k could have been more then possible straight after runaway but not now
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 06, 2012, 08:12:16 AM: Damn, S_D, I love reading your posts, man! You have great insight into things, and you're well spoken. Reminds me of the old days on various adventure gaming forums - you know, these kinds of chats just petered out over the years.

Yeah - there's definitely a lot of concern, and I'll be keeping everyone updated as far as swag goes - I have contacted several vendors - I did so during the KS, to make sure we could obtain what we needed to for the budget we had. I think fulfilling swag is going to be hard for some projects - we kept ours pretty reasonable, but fun - I think. I mean, I'm looking forward to getting our swag in, and having a copy of all of it for my own! I'll be excited when we can finally assemble the big boxes, and start shipping them out to people, in all honesty. I loved getting the game boxes when I was a kid - and to be able to send one out there, with our name on it, and the game we made inside? It gives you kind of an ooey-gooey feeling inside, honestly. Everyone knows I'm filled with ooh and goo anyway... hah.

I'm interested to see how things develop - and I share many of your excitements and fears about the projects you mentioned. But, you know, time is the great decider - we'll see how it all goes! You know, though, just because I love the community so much, and I want to see everyone happy and promoting adventure games again - I hope all the games are amazing. I hope people flood the forums, and we're arguing about the minutiae of the games, speculating on sequels, odd parts or useless background characters in games getting their own fan club. (I'm pretty sure 'The Friends of Jan' from QFI is going to happen. Everyone seems to love him!)

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 12, 2012, 04:28:10 PM: I've been sad to see some projects not make their goals.

Cinemaware produced some great games that I loved when I was a young PC gamer. Defender of the Crown, It Came From The Desert and Rocket Ranger all come to mind.

They had a KS to get an enhanced version of "Wings" out there, but it failed. It kind of failed hard, which made me sad. I really think some people just don't know how to navigate the crowd funding thing.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Collector on September 12, 2012, 09:15:04 PM: How much of a fan following did they still have? It seems that for a successful KS you have to have strong fan base or community.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Goatmeal on September 12, 2012, 09:27:41 PM: Quote from: Blackthorne on September 12, 2012, 04:28:10 PM

They had a KS to get an enhanced version of "Wings" out there, but it failed.

It's not surprising. Could they have really afforded Thomas Hayden Church, now that he's a big movie star?

Still, it would have been cool to see Tim Daly and Steven Weber in High Def... :-\
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 15, 2012, 08:23:30 AM: And.... I think that KS for indies has peaked.

Obsidian, makers of Planescape: Torment, have a Kickstarter for a new isometric RPG - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity)

Well, it seems that the bigger guys, who've already had success, have found this model. I wonder how long it is before they milk this dry, and leave it a desert.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 16, 2012, 02:44:02 AM: Yeah, that last one was a bit of a gutpunch for me.

See, I was a pretty avid Neverwinter Nights player, once upon a time. This was because, as a Linux gamer, it was the best really good isometric ARPG available at the time, ported to Linux. For a number of reasons, Atari bungled the porting arrangement with Bioware (for example, the cutscenes were all Bink compressed, and with no Linux playback engine, Linux players had no cutscenes).

Enter Obsidian, with a new engine, no Linux porting capability, and insufficient internal porting expertise. So, NWN2 had no Linux client. It's immature and unfair, but it felt like Obisidian killed off portability. So they took some blame.

Now, they start the KS with no Mac/Linux support, post an FAQ question stating that they're being looked into, and finally add the ridiculous $2.2M stretch goal for Linux. Seriously?

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that said funds could, instead, bring 35 QFI-style, truly indie projects instead :(
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 16, 2012, 08:56:26 AM: Yeah. Exactly. That Obsidian campaign made it's 1.1 million goal in less than two days. It's unreal.

Woo - and when you say 35 independent projects like QFI, it makes my tummy rumble. Jeez.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on September 16, 2012, 11:04:15 AM: I'd like to offer several choice four-letter words to those types of Kickstarter projects that don't actually NEED Kickstarter. What it's doing is saturating the market--Kickstarter is fast becoming just another means of getting "publishing," except without any work on the part of the developers. It's basically the welfare system of the gaming industry. And just like the real welfare system, it's being abused by assholes who don't actually need it, at the expense of those who do.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Monster on September 16, 2012, 03:25:58 PM: After watching their video, I can sort of understand why they're coming to Kickstarter. It may indeed be difficult for them to secure funding for the type of game that they want to make (which is ridiculous, considering their track record). The video also shows, however, a very large group of people, and Obsidian is far from being an Indie development team. I believe that they could make the game with a much smaller team at much less cost, at least trying to maintain some sense of being Indie.

I really hope that big projects like that don't begin to dominate, leaving true indie projects to suffer from a lack of interest or funding.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rogerxy on September 16, 2012, 06:21:02 PM: I totally agree with you, it's a frightening trend. But KS shows their real colors and proves that only $ counts
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Ilyich on September 16, 2012, 07:36:30 PM: I'm very biased about the Obsidian kickstarter, since it was the first thing I wished for after I found out about the Double Fine Adventure. For me Chris Avellone + Tim Cain is even better than Tim Schafer + Ron Gilbert, and the original Fallouts, Planescape and Arcanum are my favourite games of all time.

So, from my fanboy position, I would like to argue that this is exactly the kind of project appropriate for kickstarter. It's too big for independent publishing, while the larger publishers wouldn't even go near it.
And yet it's the kind of project that many people were dreaming of for years(I sure have), and Obsidian has both the experience and talent to pull it off.

I don't think it ruins things for actual indie games either- if anything it brings lots of new people to their virtual playground (the results of DFA is a clear proof of that), we just now have a place for middle ground between niche and mainstream projects. And it's not like there are many developers as beloved as the former Black Isle team who also want to make serious old-school games.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 16, 2012, 08:01:54 PM: It's good to get a well thought out opinion from the other side like that. You make some good points about bringing more people to the playground, so to speak. I can only hope that this projects KS success can help other smaller projects.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Pandamaniac on September 17, 2012, 11:39:50 AM: I know that it can. Until PE went to kickstarter, I never even thought about contributing to a game before it was published. PE coaxed me into opening my wallet, and surfing the comments on PE's kickstarter page led me here, and ultimately to backing QFI.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Monster on September 17, 2012, 11:46:26 AM: Very good points.

It's just hard to believe that a team with the successful track record of Obsidian would need Kickstarter at all. I would think that publishers would jump at the chance to work with them. But like I said, I can kind of understand why they are looking for support.

But it is good to know that these projects are bringing people to Kickstarter to support other projects. I only recently started looking over Kickstarter, and it was because of this game. Already, there are a good handful of games I'd love to back.

If only I had the money to back them all!
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 17, 2012, 11:56:33 AM: Quote from: Pandamaniac on September 17, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
I know that it can. Until PE went to kickstarter, I never even thought about contributing to a game before it was published. PE coaxed me into opening my wallet, and surfing the comments on PE's kickstarter page led me here, and ultimately to backing QFI.

Well, hey! That's pretty awesome.

I do agree - I wonder why Obsidian would have trouble getting normal publishing. It's just a sign of how much the game industry is in serious trouble, I would say.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: DrSlash on September 17, 2012, 01:12:08 PM: Agree. Obsidian Entertainment's games are awesome, but I don't understand why they've used Kickstarter instead of normal publisher.

Well, at least they won't have problems they had with Knights of the Old Republic II ;)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Pandamaniac on September 17, 2012, 01:37:13 PM: This is from an interview with the Obsidian CEO on Gamebanshee:

"Buck: What sort of style and play experience are you hoping to achieve with Project Eternity? What is it about the game's premise and engine (with two-dimensional painted backgrounds!) that wouldn't fit into a traditional developer/publisher arrangement?

Feargus: We absolutely want to bring back what was great about the Infinity Engine games. While we plan to improve some things based upon what we think fans of the older games expect now-a-days (like the interface), Project Eternity is going to play and feel like an Infinity Engine game.

When it comes to not fitting into the traditional developer/publisher arrangement, it is probably going to sound like we are giving publishers a really bad rap. In some ways that’s true, but in other ways – this kind of project is just not one that fits in the traditional model. The big publishers are built around making games that cost millions of dollars to make, millions of dollars to promote and market and millions more to build the units that get shipped to stores. Their organizations are built around that model. To make the same amount of revenue on games like Project Eternity, they would have to ship hundreds of games a year instead of ten or twenty. They are just not built that way. Plus, with Kickstarter, Steam and social media – we can fund, distribute and promote our games entirely ourselves. In a way, we just don’t need them for a game like Project Eternity. "

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/109456-project-eternity-interview.html (http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/109456-project-eternity-interview.html)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on September 17, 2012, 02:56:27 PM: Quote from: Pandamaniac on September 17, 2012, 01:37:13 PM
Plus, with Kickstarter, Steam and social media – we can fund, distribute and promote our games entirely ourselves.

It sounds to me like they are planning on having a Kickstarter for every game they produce. Is THAT an acceptable thing to do? Seems like people would start to get irritated at the SAME group asking for money over and over, project after project.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: nidoking on September 17, 2012, 03:00:37 PM: Honestly, if the money's there, then the model clearly works. If people do get irritated at funding multiple games by the same publisher, they'll have to talk with their wallets. As long as they can raise the money through crowdsourcing, what's stopping them? My question is how much any of these games will sell once they're made, considering that most people who want copies will already have paid for theirs via the Kickstarters. It might well be that that initial funding is all they'll ever earn for the games.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 17, 2012, 03:23:18 PM: Yeah - well, trying to Kickstart every game runs into problems, I'd think. I mean, KS relies on a lot of people to pledge MORE than the game is worth, because they want to back the company and the project. You can't always count on those kinds of outrageous bids everytime - people aren't going to be pledging more than they would pay for a game in the store every time. I just don't think it's sustainable - I know our plan is not to have a Kickstarter every time we want to make a new game. We're hoping that we can have some measure of success with QFI, enough to help us fund the next game.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on September 17, 2012, 03:24:33 PM: Quote from: nidoking on September 17, 2012, 03:00:37 PM
My question is how much any of these games will sell once they're made, considering that most people who want copies will already have paid for theirs via the Kickstarters. It might well be that that initial funding is all they'll ever earn for the games.

True--that's definitely a concern. The PC/Mac market is already somewhat limited compared to consoles and mobile devices. For us, we had a significantly smaller amount of backers than the amount of money our Kickstarter ended up raising--many of our backers pledged much more than the amount necessary for the lowest reward tier. During the height of the remake scene, a lot of those games had well over a million downloads. Sure, they were free, but we've gotta hope that at least some of the market would be there. You also have to remember that most people are going to be a lot quicker to put money down for something that is already available and they can start playing immediately, rather than something they have to wait a year or so to be developed.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on September 17, 2012, 04:36:51 PM: I think people will still be willing to back a sequel on Kickstarter as long as they LOVE the first game. One of the big problems I see is that people have invested more then they usual in some cases this will have raised expectations to an unrealistic level and almost anything that is delivered will be a disapointment.

The other thing I see happening with some of these projects is they going way over time. Some of the timeframes of the big projects are very ambitious. While they see the positives of being free from publisher restrictions I can't help but wonder if in some cases the creative juices may run wild and end up with big delays. Wiithout a publisher cracking the whip I can see may updates saying "Their is another delay due to us being committed to giving you the best possible game".
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 17, 2012, 04:40:23 PM: Yeah, getting a game done in a time-frame is really a concern. It'll be interesting to see how it all shapes up with all the other adventure game groups that got funding this year - but, for example, Phoenix Online had a Kickstarter last fall - October or November off the top of my head, and they are just about to release Episode 1 of "Cognition".

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on September 17, 2012, 04:51:29 PM: Quote from: Blackthorne on September 17, 2012, 04:40:23 PM
for example, Phoenix Online had a Kickstarter last fall - October or November off the top of my head, and they are just about to release Episode 1 of "Cognition".

They also have a publisher behind them now, too, though. I have to wonder how much of a difference that made.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lupin on September 21, 2012, 06:24:21 AM: And now we have publishers basically telling game designers to use Kickstarter to get money for them.

"We were actually contacted by some publishers over the last few months that wanted to use us to do a Kickstarter," CEO Feargus Urquhart wrote on the Project Eternity Kickstarter forum. "I said to them 'So, you want us to do a Kickstarter for [you], using our name, we then get the Kickstarter money to make the game, you then publish the game, but we then don't get to keep the brand we make and we only get a portion of the profits?' They said, 'Yes'."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119668-Obsidian-CEO-Publishers-Are-Trying-to-Sneak-Into-Kickstarter (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119668-Obsidian-CEO-Publishers-Are-Trying-to-Sneak-Into-Kickstarter)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Corrigan on September 21, 2012, 06:35:54 AM: They are right about it being a generous assumption that their suggestion was driven by ignorance more than "evil". If you're in the business of publishing games and something as threatening to your practice as KS comes along, you don't remain ignorant if you don't want to end up bankrupt. It takes about 5mins of reading to understand the basic concept of the Kickstarter funding model. So the idea that a publisher would approach a games company with a proposal, without having bothered to do that is a bit far fetched. Sneaky buggers.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on September 21, 2012, 10:10:07 AM: Wow. That's enough to boil the blood. And I thought Jane Jensen's kickstarter was annoying! haha
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Collector on September 21, 2012, 01:41:33 PM: If you get enough to fund the development of a game via KS, why would anyone hand their game over to a disinterested publisher? Sounds like a good reason for someone to start a third party digital distribution business for indies that just charges a cut of the profits per sale and let the developers to keep their IPs.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 21, 2012, 03:42:51 PM: Ugh. Yeah, this kind of stuff, business-wise, was inevitable. I'd be interested to see what Kickstarter is, for video games, a year from now.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: nidoking on September 21, 2012, 05:02:10 PM: Quote from: Collector on September 21, 2012, 01:41:33 PM
If you get enough to fund the development of a game via KS, why would anyone hand their game over to a disinterested publisher? Sounds like a good reason for someone to start a third party digital distribution business for indies that just charges a cut of the profits per sale and let the developers to keep their IPs.

I expect GOG would be happy to do that. They've already started distributing recent games by other publishers as well as recent indie games. What's to stop them from becoming the sole publisher of certain indie games, aside from maybe some random legality I'm not aware of, never having created or published a game myself?
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on September 21, 2012, 06:00:33 PM: Quote from: nidoking on September 21, 2012, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Collector on September 21, 2012, 01:41:33 PM
If you get enough to fund the development of a game via KS, why would anyone hand their game over to a disinterested publisher? Sounds like a good reason for someone to start a third party digital distribution business for indies that just charges a cut of the profits per sale and let the developers to keep their IPs.

I expect GOG would be happy to do that. They've already started distributing recent games by other publishers as well as recent indie games. What's to stop them from becoming the sole publisher of certain indie games, aside from maybe some random legality I'm not aware of, never having created or published a game myself?

There's also Steam. They seem to be pretty indie-friendly.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 21, 2012, 06:56:00 PM: Yeah - GoG and Steam are great in that they don't limit you to selling exclusively with them.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on September 23, 2012, 05:39:44 AM: Was amazed that Broken Sword hit 770k! At some point the Kickstarter buzz has to die but it is going strong at the moment. Amazing that it out funded Larry, Space Venture and Pinkerton Road. Hero U (the project from the coles) will launch their KS next month what is your guess on what they will make? They are after 400k, could they match Broken Sword. Personally of the classics that are being rereleased Hero U is the one I would most want to contribute too. Are you likely to donate more to Hero U the you have to other Sierra franchises, or are you kick started out?
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Klytos on September 23, 2012, 06:07:14 AM: I'm not very likely to donate to Hero U at this stage because there's not much information about it, except that it's a top down RPG style computer with "threads" of ideas from QFG but completely new and original. Once the KS launches then I'll re-examine where I'm at with it.

I'm not surprised Broken Sword did so well. It's a great series and has been consistent over more recent years than the Sierra titles. Larry is just a remake, sure it's one I'm looking forward to playing, but this will be the third version of LSL1 so there's not much new stuff to look at. Except to support Al Lowe and Josh Mandel. Space Venture is the one I'm most excited about and the one I donated the most money to, because Scott Murphy is one of my favorite people in this community and has been very supportive of us as well as being someone I really respect and look up to. Mark and Scott back together will be awesome. As for Pinkerton Road, well I didn't support it for a number of reasons, one of which is that they didn't actually tell us what game they were making until half way through the KS. Just felt wrong to me.

Now if someone did a Manhunter Remake in a 3D rendered Myst style, then I would support that to the max.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on September 23, 2012, 11:46:22 AM: Considering that I've backed pretty much every adventure game project since Larry, I'm sure to give a little something. It certainly won't be as much as SpaceVenture, Larry, or possibly even QFI, but I do like the QFG series enough to at least look at it.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 23, 2012, 01:30:21 PM: I'm definitely contributing - I can't wait to see more details, but I think a lot of people that are expecting an adventure game like Quest For Glory aren't going to dig it as much.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on September 23, 2012, 03:13:40 PM: The initial reports of Hero U did not interest me at all. But when I read this interview http://mashable.com/2012/09/17/hero-u/?fb_action_ids=10101770850079077 (http://mashable.com/2012/09/17/hero-u/?fb_action_ids=10101770850079077)
it made me a lot more interested. Pleased that all the the visit to the dungeons have specific story purposes rather then simply levelling up.

Still would have preferred them to make an adventure / rpg of course but if it ends up being similar in game play to something like Ultima 3 then I will be well happy

As they have had time to organise thier kickstarter one thing I would like them to do is work out all the rewards well in advance. Few groups have been able to do this and it gets so messy when you add rewards to certain tiers after people have already pledged and then can't update the information.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on September 23, 2012, 06:46:15 PM: Believe me, you can make a lot of plans - but don't plan a lot of results! We were very careful in planning our rewards, and we still had to add and change things. It happens - you have to try and plan as best you can, but sometimes things are just going to come up.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on September 23, 2012, 10:22:40 PM: Quote
Believe me, you can make a lot of plans - but don't plan a lot of results! We were very careful in planning our rewards, and we still had to add and change things. It happens - you have to try and plan as best you can, but sometimes things are just going to come up.

You guys were a little different becuase you were initially asking for such a small amount the margins were very small. I could see that you could not add in certain rewards untill certain thresholds had been crossed. Adding extra high tier rewards is never a problem, but once groups start adding items to the lower end pledges it gets very messy about what is included at what level. A project with a 400k budget (I know that is still a small budget for a game) should be able to plan from the beginning what they want to be included in all their under $100 rewards and I see no reason why they would need to change it.

Many teams later add things to the lower tiers that could have been their from the beginning if they had really thought it through. I know often these are done to add an extra incentive for people to up pledge, but with the inability to update the rewards I think they are better off putting the incentive on the table at the start.

QFI was one of the best kickstarters because it had a playale demo, what could the coles do to make their kickstarter stand out from the rest? What is going to be the next great marketing idea in a KS campaign.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Klytos on September 24, 2012, 02:02:33 AM: We did the demo for a number of reasons, but one of the major factors was that we didn't have a classic industry "name" to hang our hat from.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Monster on September 24, 2012, 03:52:25 AM: I think the Demo definitely helped. It is well done and loads of fun, and had a lot of influence in my decision regarding the purchase of the game. I also think you guys have a unique concept, and that works for you as well.

As for the Hero-U Kickstarter: I will definitely back it. As for how much, that depends on how I feel about the game and campaign once I see them, but they will get some of my money and support, no doubt.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 24, 2012, 05:07:43 AM: Having looked a little deeper into it, and watched their updates, I understand why Obsidian is having difficulty pitching the game concept to publishers. Their concept is for a maturely themed, single-player, 90's-to-early-00's style, open-world, isometric RPG with a tactical real-time formation-based combat system. So, basically, in not so many words, a spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment. What they do not have is the Wizards of the Coast license to use the actual Planescape setting, so it looks like it will be a generic Tolkein-esque high-fantasy setting.

Strikes against it for publishers include; 90's-style iso, mature morality themes, and the single-player focus. These are the things, however, which endear me to the project. Additionally, after smearing them a tiny bit here (and in person at my office as well, to my shame) for their ridiculous notion that supporting Linux costs twice as much, they went and decided to build the game using Unity3D. Linux & Mac now come, regardless of stretch goals, and they will apparently do something else with the additional funds (replacement stretch goal at $2.2M is now TBD). I just wish they'd done their homework up-front, rather than waiting for a full week of their Kickstarter to pass. It's almost as if most Kickstarter project creator don't actually expect their campaigns to succeed, and are completely caught off-guard when they do.

I still think feel as if they should have been able to publish through a smaller publisher (do these still exist anymore?), but I can begin to understand why a crowd-sourced solution would feel like the only way to accomplish their vision.

The more deeply I've delved into the information they've provided in their updates, the more I'm convinced that it's somewhat antithetical to the kind of concept major publishers are interested in. For example, in their most recent update (number 7) they describe a complex system of non-combat skills, and non-combat skill points, and further, they explain that these will be fully integrated into the various quest-lines, such that one could accomplish nearly the entire game without combat. A serious fantasy RPG in which you don't have to fight? Another nail in the publisher coffin. When you do fight, your brain is required for tactics and strategy?

In another update, they wax metaphysical in their concept of souls in their invented setting, and soul interaction in the magic system they envision. It's very Eastern-philosophy influenced, with a reincarnation mechanic, and they discuss concepts of new/old/fractured souls and what affect that may have on characters' casting skills.

So, it's not first person, it's not multiplayer, it touches religious themes outside the mainstream, when you fight, you have to use your brain, and you don't even have to freaking kill anything. Also as of yet, there's no mention of a console. Even Skyrim was console-ized and first-person, and it contained adult themes of morality (... I'm told, having not played it. Still waiting on Bethesda for the Linux port ;) ).

Does this justify the concept of using KS to fund AA game development, which this surely can be categorized as, along with the wildly successful Planetary Annihilation? I don't even know what to think of Homestuck, with their million dollars.

I haven't yet decided the answer to that question, but I'm of two masters here, with my platform preference, and my personal preferences in games. I feel obligated to represent my community on projects in which Linux is made a possibility, and am less choosy about those. Project Eternity promises enough that I've decided to support it. If they'll give Linux a chance, I'll extend them the same courtesy.

I'll admit, my support won't be in the stratosphere at which I'm backing my adventure games, especially the ones I really went deeply on (SpaceVenture, Quest for Infamy, Jack Houston, and Broken Sword 5). Further, I'm certainly not going to work nearly as hard to cheerlead them on the internet as I did for SV, QFI and JH. That nearly killed me ;D
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on September 24, 2012, 05:13:07 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on September 06, 2012, 08:12:16 AM
Damn, S_D, I love reading your posts, man! You have great insight into things, and you're well spoken. Reminds me of the old days on various adventure gaming forums - you know, these kinds of chats just petered out over the years.

*blush*

Yeah, I was mostly drunk back then. Good times...
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on September 24, 2012, 01:05:21 PM: Looks like SD got me interested in Project Eternity. The non-combat skills update sold me, though. I have been a fan of theirs since the original Fallout and KotOR2, as well as having loved New Vegas (I have but never played their D&D games, though), so I figured that I can give a little bit to them. Nowhere near as much as the big adventure game projects, of course. ;)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: DrSlash on September 24, 2012, 02:30:58 PM: Quote from: Intendant S on September 24, 2012, 01:05:21 PM
The non-combat skills update sold me, though. I have been a fan of theirs since the original Fallout and KotOR2
Though they were useless in both KotORs as long as the only skill usefull for the main character was Persuation - you could always use other characters in your party to repair/hack something etc.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on September 26, 2012, 02:33:49 AM: The KS Blues remain, but what is fantastic is that the Guys and Gal gave us a demo, which no one has done period. Team Infamy took the time and effort to produce a workable demo of what the finished game will be. Shit, shucks, or shinola thats so much MORE than others!!!!! :D
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on October 01, 2012, 06:00:22 PM: Quote from: Intendant S on September 24, 2012, 01:05:21 PM
Looks like SD got me interested in Project Eternity. The non-combat skills update sold me, though.

That's cool, but it wasn't my intention to specifically draw new backers to a multi-million dollar Kickstarter project by a major game studio... ;D

It was intended to be a balanced re-evaluation. And also, I'm sort of reaching out to many project (too many projects...) in response to them reaching out to me (that is, to Linux).

That being said, my major complaints were that the size & scope of the project seemed somewhat abusive of the "spirit" of Kickstarter, and that they were ignoring Linux (I mean, jeez, isn't mitigating risk in platform porting investment part of the whole Kickstarter appeal?). The latter has neatly been dealt with, vis a vis Unity3D version 4, and as for the former, I think Obsidian "gets" that. Their CEO (Feargus Urquhart, the guy that tattled about the publishers "backdooring" Kickstarter monies) hops on the comment thread and chats with the little people nearly every evening (including aggressive, opinionated troll-likes), and their team is responsive to backer's comments (for example, they recently de-boob-plated some concept art due to gender representation responses by backers).

To balance my supporting that project, I'll also promote smaller, struggling projects... like I'm about to do next...
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on October 01, 2012, 06:01:22 PM: I thought I'd mention another, albeit very different, action/adventure project with RPG elements, whose art direction is also intriguing and quite unique. Lots of copy/paste following here...

Papier Adventure on Kickstarter (http://"http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spycraftstudios/papier-adventure")

Papier is a game that takes place in a world of paper, sketches and ink. Where imagination and adventure are everything!

The game immerses you and your character, a boy named Papier, into a world made of paper that combines the latest of game technology with the aesthetic of hand drawn surfaces. The outdoor scene at the end of the project video demonstrates the unique look and feel of the game world.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/145/637/c5929b4a3a1c6de38e4e6fe37816dc1f_medium.png?1346856724)

While Papier's powers will be essential to success in this world, it is the choices you make that will have far reaching consequences for Papier, the characters he meets, and the unfolding of the world of paper.

The world and story of Papier is for those who really dig worlds of imagination and fantasy. We're super excited about the story, characters, visual style, and entertaining touches that will make this a special game to experience, and we can't wait to share it with you. If we were to mention influences to give you an idea of what to expect, they would be the work of Tim Burton, the whimsically portrayed Hans Christian Andersen (you know the one with Danny Kaye?), and Roald Dahl. You get the idea. All aboard the escapism express!

Here's a great interview with the project creators (http://"http://alternativemagazineonline.co.uk/2012/09/27/interview-in-conversation-with-matt-mcardell-papier-kickstarter-spycraft-studios/")

Reddit AMA (http://"http://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/comments/10qswq/iama_kickstarter_project_lead_for_papier/")
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on October 01, 2012, 09:20:34 PM: Quote from: s_d on October 01, 2012, 06:01:22 PM
I thought I'd mention another, albeit very different, action/adventure project with RPG elements, whose art direction is also intriguing and quite unique. Lots of copy/paste following here...

Definitely unique. And I look for unique and interesting concepts that stand out from the norm. I've been a backer of this one since I first heard about it.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lupin on October 04, 2012, 06:17:56 AM: Quote from: s_d on October 01, 2012, 06:01:22 PM
([url]http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/145/637/c5929b4a3a1c6de38e4e6fe37816dc1f_medium.png?1346856724[/url])

That reminds me of Little Big Planet, and I have never played that game
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 04, 2012, 08:07:44 AM: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal)

Really? John Ro-fucking-mero is part of this company. JOHN ROMERO.

It doesn't even have a title! These guys have a name, and a good pedigree.... but, Christ. I wish I could just say "I wanna create an Old School Adventure game!" and ask for a million dollars!?!

Sigh. I bet this will be good, but.... fuck.....

Bt

EDIT: I mean, for God's SAKE, in the video John Romero pulls up in A HUMMER. A HUMMER. To deliver a game....... that Hummer cost more than we raised to make QFI....
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Goatmeal on October 04, 2012, 09:52:20 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on October 04, 2012, 08:07:44 AM
[url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal[/url] ([url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal[/url])

Really? John Ro-fucking-mero is part of this company. JOHN ROMERO.

Personally, I'm just waiting for the eventual Kickstarter for the sequel to "John Romero's Daikatana"... :D
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 04, 2012, 01:54:47 PM: JOHN ROMERO WILL MAKE YOUR WALLET HIS BITCH ON KICKSTARTER.

"Daikatana 2"

Hahah

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on October 16, 2012, 05:18:19 PM: Looks like Shaker (old school rpg) is going to struggle to make their target, they had an awesome start followed by a huge drop off.
Project Eternity has left Double Fine for dust, the final stretch goal is 4 million and they will prob come up just short, but it has had amazing support
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 16, 2012, 05:57:58 PM: Yeah - Shaker (Old School RPG)... was just a poorly planned Kickstarter. Basically went with the "We're awesome!" give us your money....

And then they haven't done anything right since.... Kicktraq has them tracking at like 50% funding now.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on October 16, 2012, 10:00:06 PM: Quote from: Blackthorne on October 04, 2012, 08:07:44 AM
Really? John Ro-fucking-mero is part of this company. JOHN ROMERO.

It doesn't even have a title! These guys have a name, and a good pedigree.... but, Christ. I wish I could just say "I wanna create an Old School Adventure game!" and ask for a million dollars!?!

Yep, nailed my first thought. He's not even mentioned among the luminaries of gaming on the front page, as his presence almost certainly detracts from the campaign :)

Also... they're going with Unity3D for cross-platform support, but need another $500K to support Linux? They only need one Ryan "Icculus" Gordon (who essentially ported Unreal Tournament, Serious Sam, and Prey by himself) or Alternative Games (which is basically two and a half guys in Finland who ported Trine & Trine 2) for 4-5 months. Or a number of other talented porting crews who could also help with Mac OS X.

Hell, benefits included, they could hire FIVE porting engineers with those additional funds, each of which is probably a talented gal or guy who could implement features and fix bugs on the overall project as well as porting, packaging and QA.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on October 16, 2012, 10:02:04 PM: Quote from: Blackthorne on October 04, 2012, 01:54:47 PM
JOHN ROMERO WILL MAKE YOUR WALLET HIS BITCH ON KICKSTARTER.

"Daikatana 2"

Ha!! Hey, Bt, have you ever actually played Daikatana? If not (and I'm sure nidoking has peeked at this one) I can't stress how truly awful it was. It was so very bad.

Bad.

>:(
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on October 19, 2012, 08:32:23 AM: Look i have kickstarter depression. Too many KS looking for too much money. After the Coles " Hero U" im tapped out for money with KS. Everyone and their bother has jumped on the KS band wagon. Projects asking for Big bucks,? QFI had to work to get 63K. Some projects beaking 4 million. Nuts. :) Bring on the NEW DEMO for QFI!!!! ;)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 19, 2012, 09:32:19 AM: Heh, yeah. Kickstarter is popular - and I definitely think the fan-base that supports it is going to be a little tapped by the end of this year.

Regardless of what any other team raised, I'll say that Kickstarter was good to us - our backers were amazing, many new friendships were made, many old friendships were rekindled, and people game out to support a good game and we're in the process of making something really special. I'm very thankful for everything Kickstarter and our backers did for us. We're certainly lucky folks.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 20, 2012, 05:24:31 AM: So, Shaker (Old School RPG) is calling it quits.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal/posts/332306 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal/posts/332306)

15 days left - they're calling it quits, and packing up shop. They had 7,000+ backers and over $251,000 raised. It's just funny; the size of projects. If we had those numbers, we'd be celebrating a success so great, we could hardly imagine in. For them, they're throwing in the towel.

I think some of these larger groups/companies really need to rethink their not only their pictches, but also the realistic size of their "KICKSTARTER" audience.

Like, for example, our games at IA over the years have been downloaded close to a million times. We have about 1,800+ backers. That's way less than 1% of the total throughout the years. Some people aren't going to take the risk and ride on the KS merry-go-round. Which is cool - I'm hoping more of them will come out and check out our game when we release it. But you do have to think about the realistic size of your KS audience.

I'm sure some companies see DoubleFine and now Obsidian's success and make a leap for it..... I dunno. There's no rhyme or reason sometimes, other than some people have the magic, and do things right - and others don't.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on October 20, 2012, 08:22:10 AM: I'm glad some of these Kickstarters with lame pitches and ridiculous funding goals are failing. GOOD. I hope more fail, too. The system has been abused up the ass for the last several months. I doubt this is really a turnaround or anything, but at least the field is being culled as it were.

$251,000 is a fucking failure. My ass. If you can't make a game for that amount, you shouldn't be making a game at all. I realize they don't get the money unless they reach whatever their original ridiculous funding goal was, but seriously. Screw those guys.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on October 20, 2012, 08:25:27 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on October 20, 2012, 05:24:31 AM
So, Shaker (Old School RPG) is calling it quits.
[url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal/posts/332306[/url] ([url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lootdrop/an-old-school-rpg-by-brenda-brathwaite-and-tom-hal/posts/332306[/url])

15 days left - they're calling it quits, and packing up shop. They had 7,000+ backers and over $251,000 raised. It's just funny; the size of projects. If we had those numbers, we'd be celebrating a success so great, we could hardly imagine in. For them, they're throwing in the towel.

I think some of these larger groups/companies really need to rethink their not only their pictches, but also the realistic size of their "KICKSTARTER" audience.

Like, for example, our games at IA over the years have been downloaded close to a million times. We have about 1,800+ backers. That's way less than 1% of the total throughout the years. Some people aren't going to take the risk and ride on the KS merry-go-round. Which is cool - I'm hoping more of them will come out and check out our game when we release it. But you do have to think about the realistic size of your KS audience.

I'm sure some companies see DoubleFine and now Obsidian's success and make a leap for it..... I dunno. There's no rhyme or reason sometimes, other than some people have the magic, and do things right - and others don't.

Bt

No rhyme or Reason for a KS success?? Double Fine and Obsidian's success came from name recognition. DF with Schaefer and Gilberts name, and Obsidians with the Whole AD&D gaming world. Classic games like Baldurs Gate/Ice Wind Dale etc. It would be like if Ken and Roberta Williams came out of retirement and said, "Folks we are rebooting Sierra 2.0." The response would be Nuts! It is my sincere hope that in the future folks will recognize the IA/IQ name and the names Mills/Alexander will be immortalized! :)

Some KS projects like the Pebble and Quja are just cool in themselves. Unique ideas that caught on, if you take my drift. Exactly what in my thoughts what KS was designed for, as well as Quest for Infamy. Folks with a unique vision who have the drive to make Something Special. :)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on October 20, 2012, 08:30:46 AM: I have to agree with you Lambonius. If i wanted to make a game for 500,000 bucks, only reached 250,000 why couldnt i revise my cost projections and make the game? I mean Shaker had 7000 people who wanted to see the game made. So i call it quits with 15 days to go? All those folks who pledged are going to be left out in the cold. Sure they didnt end up giving any money, but i'd be pissed off!!!!
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Klytos on October 20, 2012, 10:16:21 AM: A million dollars? A fucking million dollars? To make an old school RPG. They have to have been taking the piss, seriously.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on October 20, 2012, 11:14:27 AM: Folks i have decided to Announce a KickStarter!!! From the proud employees of Chadlysoft comes a ALL NEW ADVENTURE: BEER QUEST the Search for SudS!!!! Join us in help making a classic old school adventure game that entails: Bar-hopping across the USA in search a magical mythical Brew call Goldenlager! Now this beer taste good, makes you feel good, heals your liver and makes you years younger!!! Now you ask "how much will this game cost me?" Well we are asking for the low low amount of 100,000,000 US dollars. Will the game be great? No. Our game will be Fucking Awesome! Reward tiers to follow folks........Stay tuned!!!!!!!! ;) :D 8)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 20, 2012, 11:51:02 AM: Hahah - what I meant by no Rhyme or Reason wasn't that Obsidian or DoubleFine didn't have a pedigree - they most certainly did. I do think Project Eternity is going to be a good game; those guys were on their Kickstarter constantly, talking to the fans, taking advice, and had a decent plan laid out. Tim Schaeffer... well, he basically was the first established old-school guy to say "Hey, I want to make an adventure game...." and with that kind of excitement, and his track record of amazing adventure games.... it just happened. But I don't think it could really happen again.

Tom Hall definitely had some old school cred with Commander Keen and Doom - and Brenda Bathwaite with her work on Wizardry, but it wasn't enough. A name and a basic concept isn't enough anymore.

Seriously, though, if we had 7,000 backers and $250,000+, the adventure game we could make would be stunning. Hell, we could make several games for that! Neither here nor there; Quest For Infamy is going to be so booty shakin' awesome, it's going to cause spontaneous beards to grow on our fans. Even the girls. Sorry ladies. I'll include razors in every big-box purchase of QFI.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Chadly on October 20, 2012, 12:02:07 PM: My Beard is growing in anticipation!!! Gonna look like Rip Van Winkle by the time QFI is released!! Better send me a Carton of Industrial Razors!!!!! :) ;)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on October 20, 2012, 03:34:26 PM: Quote
, for example, our games at IA over the years have been downloaded close to a million times. We have about 1,800+ backers. That's way less than 1% of the total throughout the years. Some people aren't going to take the risk and ride on the KS merry-go-round. Which is cool - I'm hoping more of them will come out and check out our game when we release it. But you do have to think about the realistic size of your KS audience.
How many individuals do you think would make up those downloads? I know I have downloaded Kq3 a couple of times and space quest once. I am sure the total number of players would still be an impressive size but itis hard to get a grasp on the numbers for a free game.

I love the fact that IQ are doing the game as a project of love. I am sure if you were paying each team member market rates the game would cost many many times more then the amount raised. Sadly many other projects don't have the same level of passion for what they are doing so they need to raise huge amounts to cover these development costs. Personally I haven't backed any of the big projects, but I don't think they are abusing the Ks process simply by asking for a large amount. I do agree the give me millions cos I am a big name and will decide on the game later is a sham
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on October 20, 2012, 03:41:51 PM: It's true, rugged, this really is a labor of love for us--the kickstarter allowed us to kick a little cash in the direction of each contributor, which is a nice bonus. What the cash really allows for is just enough incentive for me to be able to budget working on this project into my weekly "work time" as opposed to just "free time," which is significantly smaller nowadays than it used to be. But I love doing it, too--I'd work on it for free; I'd probably just be less productive. ;)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Klytos on October 21, 2012, 01:48:21 AM: Our download counter only counts each IP address once, so while there will be some double up, the numbers are pretty solid.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 21, 2012, 10:39:11 AM: Shaker: An Old School RPG said they're cancelling the project several days ago, yet the site it still live. They've been asked and they say "It's a glitch in KS".

I'm calling bullshit here. You know what I think? (Conspiracy Theory Mode ON!) They're begging and pleading with Kickstarter to let them change the monetary goal of the game. I bet they're trying to finangle it down from $1,000,000 to like $300,000 - so they could meet their goal and keep the money they've raised so far....

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on October 21, 2012, 11:04:14 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on October 21, 2012, 10:39:11 AM
Shaker: An Old School RPG said they're cancelling the project several days ago, yet the site it still live. They've been asked and they say "It's a glitch in KS".

I'm calling bullshit here. You know what I think? (Conspiracy Theory Mode ON!) They're begging and pleading with Kickstarter to let them change the monetary goal of the game. I bet they're trying to finangle it down from $1,000,000 to like $300,000 - so they could meet their goal and keep the money they've raised so far....

Bt

If that's the case, and knowing Kickstarter's track record of letting big potential pay-offs wipe their asses with their Terms of Use, we should be hearing that announcement any time...
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on October 21, 2012, 11:53:29 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on October 21, 2012, 10:39:11 AM
Shaker: An Old School RPG said they're cancelling the project several days ago, yet the site it still live. They've been asked and they say "It's a glitch in KS".

I'm calling bullshit here. You know what I think? (Conspiracy Theory Mode ON!) They're begging and pleading with Kickstarter to let them change the monetary goal of the game. I bet they're trying to finangle it down from $1,000,000 to like $300,000 - so they could meet their goal and keep the money they've raised so far....

Bt

I wouldn't doubt that is what they're trying to do. If that IS the reason, then that is even one more reason for me not to want to back the project. Personally, I thought the project doomed from the start.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: rugged on October 21, 2012, 10:54:30 PM: To be honest I don't think they are trying to lower the goal. It would be a pr nightmare to use terms like mercy killing if it was a project you were gong to try and resurrect. The whole tone of the update suggests it is a project that wont see the light of day.
I think they have done many things wrong during the kickstarter but it would be a whole nother level of stupid to tell fans they no longer needed the funds pledged and then "surprise" them with a lowered goal.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 22, 2012, 07:04:26 AM: Actually, I think it'd be on par with the amount of stupid shown during the campaign. I'm never surprised at how stupid people can be.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lambonius on October 24, 2012, 08:49:32 PM: Did you guys see this?

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/10/24/haunts-anatomy-of-a-kickstarter-collapse/#continued (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/10/24/haunts-anatomy-of-a-kickstarter-collapse/#continued)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on October 24, 2012, 10:16:06 PM: Yeah, I read about that recently. It's a sad situation - one I think we may see from a number of Kickstarters. I think they may just have bit off more than they could chew. I think there's some games out there that have been funded that suffer from the same thing.... we'll see over the next year, for certain.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on November 09, 2012, 09:00:49 PM: Haunts, however, was in a somewhat unique situation in that a large part of the early funding (some $40K or so) came from a development grant, in which the terms dictated that the game code and assets become open-sourced upon release of the project. Also, the programmers on the team expected to work for pay throughout the the extent of the project (the creator mentioned that none of the coders were willing, or prepared, to work in a "startup" environment). So, going off-schedule (and hence off budget) simply meant leaving the project.

The game is (essentially) alpha quality now, with the soundtrack, all art assets, and nearly all game features implemented, along with a level editor and (at least?) one demo level. The counterpoint is that it's *not* beta, with heavy level design and a fair bit of engine debugging presented as the first hurdles to progress, including scripting API bugs for level design.

That's the *real* naivete, in regards to the project lead. *All* games release late, and every software project has unforeseen nasty bugs to overcome. I've never seen software ship on time without bugs. Anywhere. It's not that I don't believe it's possible, I just don't think it will ever happen!

Anyway, software engineering principles aside, Haunts was already intended to BSD (or Artistic) license and release all the engine code and level scripting, and Creative Commons license all the music and artwork. This direction change means that they have to do so to even complete a game for the retail market as well as to deliver game downloads to Kickstarter backers. So, there is a fair chance that a heavily-moddable, crowd-sourced game may come of this. I'm hoping that the engine can be adapted for async turn-based games, and that the work we backers paid for will be leveraged like crazy for a bunch of nifty games in a similar style (yes, I backed it for $10, which is a pair of downloads).

I wish I could help them, as I love games, I love programming, and I love open source collaboration... but I've pledged my Linux engineering & consulting time to a small number of Kickstarter projects (QFI included), and I'd really be reneging on my commitment to these other projects if I stretched myself that thinly.

Software is notoriously difficult to scope; I agree with Bt that we may (will?) see this from a number of Kickstarters. How many other failures won't have a reasonable "open source" escape hatch, or won't be far enough along to make it worth it?
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lupin on December 29, 2012, 05:52:07 AM: I just discovered a Kickstarter that doesn't actually make any sense

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/51590474/prehistoric-pets-book?ref=users (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/51590474/prehistoric-pets-book?ref=users)

It's a guy who wants to publish a book (which incidentally actually has an interesting concept behind it), but he spends half the video telling us that he is already an established author. He talks about how he has already written two books and how much of a best seller they both were. So this begs the question of why does he need Kickstarter? Generally, Kickstarters involving books are usually for the publishing costs, but if he is already a best seller, surely he doesn't need Kickstarter. He just rings up the people who published his last two and go "Hey, I have a new book". Whilst he does say that he hasn't written in a while, that really shouldn't be an excuse. At no point does he actually state what he needs the money for, which when you are asking for money from people, is something you want to know.

The funny thing is that he has already had this project on Kickstarter. He cancelled it which could possibly mean that it failed because people noticed the exact same thing I did.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on January 01, 2013, 02:59:57 AM: You think that project doesn't make sense? Get a load of this guy:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore)

... and when that didn't work out, did this:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore-0 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore-0)

This has to be one of the weirdest things I've seen on Kickstarter, to date.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Collector on January 01, 2013, 01:00:54 PM: That makes you wonder what happens to Kickstarter when someone uses it to run a scam. Even if Kickstarter is legally protected, one scam could undermine any confidence in Kickstarter.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on January 01, 2013, 01:32:02 PM: There's already been several scams - there's also been legitimate projects that have just gotten in over their heads.

I really think the next two years will show the fruits of what Kickstarter has wrought. People are all excited about it, because really - at this point (for software development) it's still all POSSIBILITY, which is exciting. But in this next year, we'll see what kind of fruit it bears.

As a positive point, I'll mention that Phoenix Online raised money for "Cognition" with Kickstarter, and they delivered the first chapter of their game last fall.

A lot of people are skeptical about Ouya, but they've been sending out their developer consoles as of recently, so there's something on that front.

Heh - as for Lore - it's definitely become a little joke amongst the Kickstarter community.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Lupin on January 01, 2013, 02:16:37 PM: Quote from: s_d on January 01, 2013, 02:59:57 AM
You think that project doesn't make sense? Get a load of this guy:

[url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore[/url] ([url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore[/url])

... and when that didn't work out, did this:

[url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore-0[/url] ([url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore-0[/url])

This has to be one of the weirdest things I've seen on Kickstarter, to date.

That just shows the number one rule of crowdfunding when it comes to games, if it doesn't have a demo, don't support it. If all they can show you is concept art, then they are no where near an actual game so you should not waste any time supporting it
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on January 01, 2013, 03:05:11 PM: Yeah - a lot of people have supported KS games with no demo - merely concept art and a promise.

Bt
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Intendant S on January 01, 2013, 03:34:10 PM: I've supported plenty of games without demos. Hell, Pinkerton Road didn't even have a concept at first. If it smells fishy I don't back it. If it has a concept that I can get behind I'll give a little something. If they can produce more during the Kickstarter I might even up my pledge. You don't need to have a demo as long as you have SOMETHING to show.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Klytos on January 01, 2013, 08:03:56 PM: I think you can get away without a demo if you've got prior works to back up your ability to produce your project.
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: s_d on January 02, 2013, 01:56:23 AM: Quote from: Blackthorne on January 01, 2013, 01:32:02 PM
Heh - as for Lore - it's definitely become a little joke amongst the Kickstarter community.

Amongst the Kickstarter community? It's definitely escaped beyond us, Blackthorne... freaking Forbes magazine picked up the story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/12/17/meet-lore-the-most-entertaining-kickstarter-project-of-all-time/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/12/17/meet-lore-the-most-entertaining-kickstarter-project-of-all-time/)

Not sure I'd qualify it as "entertaining", personally. I'd probably place it in the same category as a circus sideshows or museums of medical oddities. :)
Title: Re: The Kickstarter Blues
Post by: Blackthorne on January 02, 2013, 08:30:55 AM: Heh, I meant entertaining in the macabre way, heh - I like that "Side Show"... I didn't know it made it to FORBES! Jeez.... look at all the press a crappy project gets. Then a scrappy start-up like ours.... heh heh. We'll make it to Forbes when we release what is sure to be one of the most amazing adventure games ever this year.

Bt