You know what really ticks me off?

[Baggins]

"What I take exception to is calling people who enjoy games like GTA the lowest common denominator. Just because it's enjoyed by the mass market doesn't mean they're the stupidest of all game players. If more people are going to by the latest GTA than the latest King's Quest - and I'd put money on that - that's what production companies are going to make. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's bad."

Well I wouldn't say 'lowest common denominator's are stupid, in this sense. I mean more along the lines that 'casual games' and sports games tend to sale more than a thought provoking story driven game. Those usually end up as 'sleeper hits'. A company is going to target audiences based on what sells more. That makes sense financially. It doesn't make sense for a company to release games that won't sell, and will lose money. Casual games have mass market appeal because even old folks can get into them and the very young. So it allows for more diverse audience.

What is the common theme that most people will 'agree' with and enjoy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LowestCommonDenominator (it can be thought of positively or negatively)

TO be fair I'm rather glad there are only a handful of really good 'story' and 'cerebral' (puzzle and portal style games, not counting the hundreds of casual puzzle games) based games a year, and not thousands, or I'd never get around to playing them all! Barely have time to play through what is released already. This is in part why I'm glad for the backwards compatibility scene or the emulation scene to give me a chance to catch up with games I may have missed the first time around due to time and money.

[Kaldire]

id like to modify my assult post against ya klytos
I really do love you all here

its prolly why it effects me so much when getting bashed

just know this
I love ya all

bad views or not.

Also note that some people want to play morrowind  not skyrim,  etc,
some want to play gta 3  not 5
some want to play wingcommander 3 not privateer
etc

your belief is yours, and its shocking to me but I cant take it from you!
nor do I want to,.. its wrong in every way, esp from a person who helped make an older genre game even if it IS new, you have a very strange view
you might want to not make more games that are old since we have halo 90 coming out etc and kids would rather play that than any point and click so why bother ?

Also id hate to ask what you think of the snes rpg maker system since that is just a backwards compat way to make new snes games, and play them now

Im sorry man, and again If you read my post I didnt say gta5 was not out for ps3, i said it wasnt MEANT for it.. as in the system, vs the modern consoles and even pc once we finally get it on pc if.. we ever do.

still waiting for uncharted's to come to pc but shrug

i love you man, really I do.
sigh

sorry mate

just know we both are right and both are wrong thats the beauty of opinion.
just odd hearing from one of the makers of this QFI that older games arent needed as the new ones pop out.

and again I did say I assume, or presume to think you dont know much about jrpgs not that you dont...
sorry for that assumption

the short short version?

"do you? yes
do you?  yes

good your married "

spaceballs the movie- quote

♥♥♥♥♥kal

[Klytos]

Yeah I agree Baggins, I think the same can be said with movies too, the loud shoot-em-up / superhero / limited story lots of SFX tend to sell better than a deep thought provoking movie.

[Kaldire]

hey we all agree on that I think,

I dont get it either about how the shootem up sfx movies with no soul gets best reviews but again this goes with saying why play gta 3 when you have gta 5

idk

I prefer the lower budget festival PI style movies over hd 3d captain america any day..
uzuuuumaakii

still love ya mate,

[Baggins]

Well I still don't understand why so many Star Trek fans loved the Star Trek reboot, when it was replaced with shiny shoot-em-up, and lost a lot of its soul, or thought provoking character that the series was known for.

If I wanted action I went for Star Wars, if I want more for the story Trek was my series of choice.

Merging the two just didn't feel right to me... I'm not a 'trekkie' or a 'trekker'... I just happen to enjoy the various old trek tv series and movies.

Oddly I kinda liked the second Trek reboot movie better than the first (although personally I didn't think it was better than the best of the older series stuff), it at least tried to return to the roots of some thought proving ideas and less action. But it was critically panned by viewers including most old star trek fans...

Old star trek fans sure have become critical of the older series even, and want more of the Trek Wars with the shinies and the pew pew .... I guess I'm just old fashioned, and just don't understand.

[Kaldire]

i like the star trek fansodes
funded by KS and well yea
has grant from mythbusters as sulu etc
some of the original ST cast!
fun  stuff

[Baggins]

Ya I think I saw some of those fan shows. They got a few of the old cast to reprise roles, like Walter Koenig, or some of the original trek writers to do some of the plots for the show? There very good accurate version of the enterprise's bridge that it was actually used in an episode of Voyager, and DS9 IIRC?

Actually I felt it did a great job of getting to the feel of the series, and the pathos of the characters, and thought provoking ideas that the series is known for. With just the right combination of action to story.

[chucklas]

At the end of the day, I go back to my original post in this thread.  For those who want to go back and replay old games, if you hang on to old hardware, you can do it no problem.  Yes, as things get older they may stop working, etc.  There isn't ENOUGH support of older titles (yes, there are some people, albeit a small percentage) to force the hand of companies to provide backwards compatibility.  For that small percentage, if your hardware breaks, it really isn't that expensive to pick up an old console.  You can get almost ANY old game system for a fraction of the price of what it would have been when it came out.  I really don't see what the fuss is all about to be honest.  I have NEVER had any system break at any point in my life.  The NES I had is the only one that had an issue, but I was able to swap out the pin connector for less than $10 and it works as good as new.  If you want to play an old game, use the old hardware.  Most people play old titles for nostalgia, and it makes the experience more authentic as well.

[Kaldire]

I really wish that view worked chucklas
but it doesnt

most old hardware fails fast, hence old hardware
would be much simpler to add chips with added emulation or support for older stuff than to say we must keep pc's from 1995-2000 and make sure that nothing fails
same with consoles

i wish it would work but, as a tech, no. it doesnt, and buying old parts costs loads more than most think,
and they just fail again n again.

bottom line though is with VMWARE u can do most anything,
just a nice virtual machine app, why cant this be inside the os for consoles and windows? get my drift?

shrug

[Baggins]

Hanging on to hardware is one way of doing things... If you have the room, and want to remain in your place of living for the rest of your life. I'd rather have a future where everything is digital, and only need a few small devices, so that I can travel a lot. and not be stuck in one place.

Hanging on to hardware won't save deteriorating media, or make deteriorating media work.

[Baggins]

Kaldire's right. Once something fails, finding someone to repair its is expensive. Trying to recollect something other collectors are after, only makes it even more expensive.

Sukoden 2 for example released a few weeks ago digitally has been sought by collectors for years. Used copies were going for $200-500s a piece. So the fact that it now can be bought digitally and works in the built in PS3 or vita emulators is a plus!

[chucklas]

Fair enough on the old hardware point.  I agree that digital is a better route to go for long term preservation.  I just don't think there is enough interest to force the hand of big companies to do it for us.  It takes those who are interested in finding ways to make it work.  To put the demand on Microsoft or Sony or whomever isn't the solution either. 

As for the expensive titles, those are few and far between.  I am referring to the hardware which there tends to be thousands of machines laying around gathering dust.  Most still work and are inexpensive.

Why do I like to watch old movies? Because I like to, sometime the classics are the best! No one has found a way to top them!

Just to connect the old movies to the issue of backwards compatibility, when DVDs came out, they couldn't play VHS tapes.  People either kept their old stuff or moved on.  They even made machines that would take both.  There was no "backwards compatibility."  Now, to be fair, Blu-Ray players can play DVDs, but will this always be the case?  Or will some other upgrade render old DVDs obsolete? 

Or, better yet, if they can improve the quality of a movie by releasing it on Blu-Ray, then why would you want to watch the inferior version of the same movie?  This can open the conversation into re-releases of media such as movies, games, etc.  For example, I am looking forward to the new Grim Fandango, but it is the SAME game.  Should I move on and enjoy the newer version or just play the old version that I have?  I gladly purchased the Halo Masterchief collection.  One of the reasons was the remastered version of Halo 2.  It is fantastic.  Would I ever go back and play Halo 2 on my first gen xbox?  Not a chance.

[Baggins]

DVD and VHS, well it was easy enough to get a device and back up VHS to dvds. At some point we did that in our house once the technology as cheap and feasible. The VHS also had the problem of deteriorating, and wearing out as well. So even trying to keep it around is a challenge.

DVDs can suffer rot, but they are much easier to protect in many ways. Thankfully even movies are going digital now too!

[chucklas]

More to my point though is that the hardware of the time of VHS could not display the quality we have today with Blu-Ray.  So, would you rather have the old version, copied from VHS, that is an inferior quality to begin with, or would you rather have the optimized version of a movie that has been released at a higher quality because the technology is now available?   

**FYI, I am not expressing any view here, but I am interested in the conversation that can be had

[Baggins]

For example, I am looking forward to the new Grim Fandango, but it is the SAME game.  Should I move on and enjoy the newer version or just play the old version that I have? 

Not all digital 'enhanced' remakes are the same. Some are absolutely terrible. I don't know where Grim Fandango will fall on this list. The remakes for Monkey Island 1 and 2 were pretty good, but part of that is the ability to switch in and out of the old and new graphics at any time. So the best of both versions.

Gold Rush remake has terrible voice acting, the graphics look like 1995-1998 quality, although technically HD. The animation is stiff. IMo, the original is better.

I don't consider the new Gabriel Knight 20th Anniversary to be an improvement over the original. The older one had better actors, better atmosphere, and better/more animation even though it was 2D. I prefer the original over the new one, although the new one is still fun.

The Leisure Suit Larry Reloaded isn't necessarily better than the original or the remake.

The Police Quest 1 remake isn't necessarily better than the AGI version, etc.

KQ1 AGI and KQ1 remake, and the fan remake? They each have their pluses and minuses, and reasons to play them.Puzzle differences between the original and the remake for example.


The New Shadowgate, now was an exception. It was a lot of fun, original puzzles, and great atmosphere. Both versions are enjoyable for their own merits.