Politics: Rock the vote!!!

[Blackthorne]

So everyone please dont be pissed at me for those comments. History is history. Chadly

I'm not pissed at ya, Chadly - I think we're having an interesting discussion!

I do know that history as taught in our American School DEFINITELY has a US bias to it - I mean, for instance, our Revolutionary War?  It's funny how other countries view that conflict as compared to us.

In a global sense, that war ended because the British were more interested in fighting the French than the colonies, not that we had some glorious victory.

Honestly, the closest thing we had to a glorious victory wouldn't come until 1814 when Andrew Jackson led the Battle of New Orleans!



Bt

[chucklas]

I do know that history as taught in our American School DEFINITELY has a US bias to it - I mean, for instance, our Revolutionary War?  It's funny how other countries view that conflict as compared to us.

Bt

THIS!!  History depends on who wrote it and who was telling the story.  From one side things look one way, and on the other the same story looks totally different.

[Goatmeal]

I get all my history from Youtube videos.  But nothing over 5 minutes long; I've got shit to do.

I get my history from the "Hitler Reacts To..." videos.

MAN, that guy had a lot to say!  He truly was a modern day Nostradamus.

[Klytos]

I'm not pissed at you, just pointing out that the basic premise of your arguments are wrong. You stated that America was the reason the war was won in Europe. Sorry, that's just not correct. The only way it could be interpreted as such is if you left half the facts out of the argument.

All this talk of Europe makes me want to watch Band of Brothers again.

[Lambonius]

I do think that it's fair to say that America's entry into the war in Europe during WWII was an important turning point though.  I don't care enough to back that statement up with any further explanation though, so I'll just leave it here for Klytos to stew over.

[nameless]

America entering the European conflict: Have you all ever heard the notion that Churchill was so desperate to get America into the war, we simply refused his pleas, he had the Lusitania sunk to piss us off and forcing us to join in?

[Chadly]

@klytos  How are my premises wrong exactly?  Did GB or any other Allies invade France before we did in '44?
The US had a huge industrial base to call upon.  Even the Japanese stated after they bombed Pearl Harbor "we have awakend the sleeping giant".  We spent damn near a trillion dollars in that War defending the World from tyrants and Scum. My grandkids will still be paying for it.  Yes i agree that history taught here in the U.S.A may have a pro U.S. slant if you will.  I am not as stated before trying to be a ignorant arrogant American.  I still firmly beleive had Hitler not been a meglomaniac and invaded Russia, there was the chance that the Nazi's would have won.  The USA hasn't been invaded in 200 years and is surrounded by two relatively friendly and militarily weak countries.  I am not a history professor but do enjoy history very much.   Chadly

[Klytos]

If WE as Americans didn't save the world twice in the last Century we would be speaking German, the jews would be erased from the planet, and freedom would have died forever.

That is wrong, lock stock and two smoking barrels.

Firstly, split the war into the two theaters because I'm talking about Europe here, not the Pacific. America did the heavy lifting in the Pacific for a number of reasons, including the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.


But the allies were already on the offensive against the Germans in the second world war before the Americans joined the fight. To say that America saved Europe is wrong. Without US intervention, the USSR would have been enough to crush Germany but we'd have had a totally different map of Europe. American intervention shortened WW2 and also put constraints on Soviet expansionism, who went from ally to enemy within a minute of the retaking of Germany.

[DosboxLetsPlay]

If WE as Americans didn't save the world twice in the last Century we would be speaking German, the jews would be erased from the planet, and freedom would have died forever.

That is wrong, lock stock and two smoking barrels.

Firstly, split the war into the two theaters because I'm talking about Europe here, not the Pacific. America did the heavy lifting in the Pacific for a number of reasons, including the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.


But the allies were already on the offensive against the Germans in the second world war before the Americans joined the fight. To say that America saved Europe is wrong. Without US intervention, the USSR would have been enough to crush Germany but we'd have had a totally different map of Europe. American intervention shortened WW2 and also put constraints on Soviet expansionism, who went from ally to enemy within a minute of the retaking of Germany.

This...

I love you Shawn.

[Klytos]

Hah, I feel the love.

[Chadly]

@dosplaybox- What country do you call home?  @klytos- Friend  we have a difference of views obviously.  The Soviets lost 20 million men fighting the Germans vs the US at 400000.  Without supplies from the USA the Allies wouldn't have won.  The Germans invaded Russia and broke the Warsaw pact because Hitler was a Egomaniac bent on Aryan Supremacy, that and he need the oil from the Caucasuses.  The the War was won as an Allied invasion of France, with the Soviets coming in from the East.  If the Soviets hadn't turned the tide at Stalingrad/St. Petersburg then who knows what would have happend. 

Also to refer to an earliar comment about the USA speaking French due to their help the American Rev War that help didn't come till 1781 towards the end of the war.  If GB had wanted to they could have crushed us, but had other interests in their Empire around the Globe.  They could have done it again during the War of 1812.  Chadly

P.S. This isnt a free for all on how The USA is the greatest country in the World, but frankly it is!:)
All joking aside their is much to be learned from history and those who don't study it are forced to repeat it.
The USA has many faults but many great things about it as well.....Nuff said.

[Collector]

But the allies were already on the offensive against the Germans in the second world war before the Americans joined the fight. To say that America saved Europe is wrong. Without US intervention, the USSR would have been enough to crush Germany but we'd have had a totally different map of Europe. American intervention shortened WW2 and also put constraints on Soviet expansionism, who went from ally to enemy within a minute of the retaking of Germany.

Well yes and no. While America's role in WWI is not that significant in comparison to what Britain and France did, WWII is a different matter. Germany had beaten back the Allies. France and many other European nations had fallen and Britain had been driven off of the continent at Dunkirk only to face being pounded by the Blitz. True They eventually broke the Blitz, but in no small part by being supplied by the US and those Merchant ships did face the threat of the U-boats. This is not at all to diminish the heroic role of the Spitfire pilots in this part of the war.

The US also was heavily supplying China (the Flying Tigers) and as mentioned, the Soviet Union (one small quibble, the Warsaw Pact was and artifact of the Cold War and was not formed until 1954). And this was before America's official entry into the war after Pearl Harbor. Then on D-Day, the Americans faced the brunt of the German forces and by that suffered the heaviest casualties.

Again, I am not saying that the rest of Allies did little or paid no costs, just that it is as inaccurate to diminish America's role as it is to disregard that of Britain's. Every nation involved paid a terribly heavy price.

[DosboxLetsPlay]

@Chadly

Ahh, you seem to have misspelled my name there, but you can very well see from my profile page that I'm from Mordavia.
But in all seriousness, it's Estonia.

The Soviets lost 20 million men fighting the Germans vs the US at 400000. 

Well that's an easy thing to answer. The Soviets didn't give a damn about casualties, many people lost their lives by being naught but cannon fodder (it was probably like that for many countries, but especially for the soviets).

All joking aside their is much to be learned from history and those who don't study it are forced to repeat it.
The USA has many faults but many great things about it as well.....Nuff said.

Yep. *cough* Few years back *cough* a certain financial crisis. *cough*
(Throws oil into fire) xD

[Klytos]

The US wasn't supplying the Allies at the point of the blitz. As I said earlier, the lend-lease act didn't happen in the US until after the blitz had been turned back.

[Blackthorne]

Take a look at this.

http://imgur.com/r/funny/DKs7Mto


Bt