Author Topic: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.  (Read 153445 times)

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Goatmeal

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #240 on: August 22, 2015, 08:43:50 PM »

Note: please don't move this, but just commenting as I mentioned before. The Bridle Puzzle at least had inspiration on mythology... The problem is you had to know two UNRELATED bits of Pegasus history to understand it... That made it really tough/obscure puzzle to solve.


Fixed it for ya...   ;)

Kaldire

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #241 on: August 22, 2015, 10:02:39 PM »
Quote
its more a platformer with a few action dragons lair sequences than it is anything close to a point n click  there is almost no pointing or clicking involved, more the grim fandango controls of walking which is ok by me, just idk if id even call this point n click,

Grim Fandango's controls are actually something that should be easy to convert to 'point and click'. It would just involve adding a button to get to inventory, be able to move items to click on a hotspot on screen. Add a direct walk feature via the icons etc.

They added in some of those features with the recent Grim Fandango remake.

ya mean the revamp?
wasnt a remake but I know what you  mean,
yea double fine was supposed to also do the eye follow the mouse thing, but didnt seem to pan out,
i sadly got the revamp, was not up to par with what I was hoping for, only thing good was the bugs fans fixed long ago (ugh that elevator) were fixed
also I love the commentary

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Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #242 on: August 23, 2015, 03:02:39 AM »
Quote
Note: please don't move this, but just commenting as I mentioned before. The Bridle Puzzle at least had inspiration on mythology... The problem is you had to know two UNRELATED bits of Pegasus history to understand it... That made it really tough/obscure puzzle to solve.

Technically it is mythology/history RELATED to Pegasus. Just not mythology where both is related to Medusa or Belepheron.

Amusingly as the Donald Trivette explains it in the The Official Book of King's Quest:

Quote
This place is really a classic. If you know mythology, you'll probably know what to do with the snake and a bridle--if not, you'll just have to fake it... The bridle? Oops, you didn't know about the three wishes?

You could kill it with your sword, but why not throw the leather bridle on it. What kind of  nonsense is that, you ask. It does seem a little odd, but readers of Greek mythology, know that a winged horse, named Pegasus, sprang fully grown from the head of Medusa (she was the babe with snakes for hair) when she was slain. So there is a link between winged horses and snakes.

Additionally the idea here is that "Pegasus" is a horse, and horses have 'bridles'. You don't necessarily have to know the Belepheron story (though The King's Quest Companion does make a nod to that one).

Quote
ya mean the revamp?
wasnt a remake but I know what you  mean,
yea double fine was supposed to also do the eye follow the mouse thing, but didnt seem to pan out,
i sadly got the revamp, was not up to par with what I was hoping for, only thing good was the bugs fans fixed long ago (ugh that elevator) were fixed
also I love the commentary

I haven't picked it up yet, been waiting for a good sale. I'm just going by what people have said about the new mouse control.

Kaldire

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #243 on: August 23, 2015, 10:31:12 AM »
they didnt really implemented proper mouse control as they hoped, they say this in the commentary also

but yes its there :)
and the bugs are gone so thats a huge plus, but the game, isnt different at all. no new additions, which I was hoping to see  some
but you do get to hear about all the back story and stuff omitted and why, and how the process was, and trust me .. double fines crew are nutbars (in a good way) so its really enjoyable vs other commentaries

id say for sure wait for sale, as the game offers nothing new so if ye own it already, for suuure wait.

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Kaldire

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #244 on: August 23, 2015, 10:32:43 AM »
btw new witcher 3 now offers MOD support, and NG+  which makes this game insane and awesome goty imo

one mod is a Pegasus and a unicorn vs a horse horse lol

aww the original clash of the titans, muhaha nothing beats the classics.
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Goatmeal

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #245 on: August 23, 2015, 12:53:44 PM »

Technically it is mythology/history RELATED to Pegasus. Just not mythology where both is related to Medusa or Belepheron.


But there is NO mention of Pegasus anywhere in the game prior to that point = Bad PUZZLE.

Similarly, by that -- ahem -- "logic" -- if I throw a white jumpsuit on the Mississippi state flag, one would expect that the flag should turn into a fried peanut butter and banana sandwich.   ???

Spoiler (hover to show)

Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #246 on: August 23, 2015, 06:07:56 PM »
Honestly in any KQ game there is no mention to any characters, puzzles, events, locations, prior to when you encounter them. That's more or less the modus operandi of King's Quest in general, and especially in the first several games.

They just make you stumble into them. The only clue you get is from the manuals which basically states:

"Look to the fables and fairy stories of yore for clues. Leave no stone unturned, no avenue unexplored, and you will triumph in your Quest."

"Study all the ancient lores for clues. Along the way collect as many treasures as you can - treasures fit for a queen."

Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #247 on: August 23, 2015, 06:21:42 PM »
Also, 90% of her ideas came from Andrew Lang's works, like the Coloured Fairy Books, or Tales of Troy and Greece.

Quote
A: When you were a young girl, were there interests, games or books you read that influenced what you're doing now? That you find coming out in your work?

W: Yes. I hate to say though, because it sounds so dumb: fairy tales. I read the Green Book, the Blue Book, the Brown Book, the Gold Book ..." http://www.atarimagazines.com/v2n8/wizardprincess.html

Anyone who had read those before playing her games, would have probably had a better idea into the references she was making!

In fact, back when the games came out there were probably more people (in particular adults) who actually had read classic fairy tales and mythology, including Andrew Lang's works. But reading is kind of a lost art.

Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #248 on: August 23, 2015, 06:57:18 PM »
The idea of throwing bridles over an enchanted beast doesn't appear to be something new either.

There is also a Romanian fairy tale, called ''The Fairy Aurora" (which appears in Andrew Lang's Violet Fairy book, which he calls The Fairy of the Dawn), in which the Hero Petru is tasked with throwing a bridle over the head of several "Welwa" (a monsterous beast depending on the source, is either similar to the ugly beast that becomes a unicorn seen in KQ8, or a giant worm/snake, of some sort). When he throws the bridle over each of the beasts head, each creature turns into a beautiful horse.

Another detail of the story, is that at one point Petru is ordered by the first of the enchanted horses (a flying horse no less) to go into the sky and chop of the head of a dragon worm/snake and put the bloodied blade in his sheaf before landing back on earth. Hence the source of the 'magic snake sword' in the game!

Kaldire

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #249 on: August 23, 2015, 07:03:45 PM »
baggins

check out ceclia dart-thornton.
a down under author,
Ill made mute  or the bitterbynde series.

she references in the book kinda like lord of the rings all tales, fairy or semi real for their time, most dating so far back im not sure how she found em, she isnt a net savvy person.

great books, hers. MOST of the references show stuff thats mentioned here, and says exactly where these come from  pretty neat.

check just the 2nd book cover! looks like a kq box!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_of_the_Sorrows
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Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #250 on: August 23, 2015, 08:13:14 PM »
If you ever wondered why there was a golden bridle and a whistle on that island in KQ4:
https://archive.org/stream/wondertalesfromm00pyle/wondertalesfromm00pyle_djvu.txt
It comes from the fairy tale "The Dwarf with a Yellow Beard":

Quote
" It can be done. Under yonder rock lies a
golden bridle. It has lain hidden there for over
a hundred years. With it lies a golden whistle.
The sound of that whistle will call the horse,
wherever he is. But he is very terrible to look
upon, for his eyes are like burning coals, and he
breathes smoke and fire from his nostrils. He
will come at you as though to tear you to pieces,
but do not be afraid. Cast the bridle over his
head, and he will at once become quite tame and
gentle. Then you can ride him wheresoever you
wish. He will bear you to the mountain where
the dragon lies and will help you to gain posses-
sion of the sword."

Perhaps some elements of Nightmare as well (KQ6)?

Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #251 on: August 23, 2015, 08:41:34 PM »
http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Ar-Be/Athena.html

Then there is another weird detail that Athena who is connected to the Greek stories concerning Pegasus, Medusa, Gorgons and anything concerning horse 'bridles'.... Very strange indeed.

Ahh, she's also connected to Perseus and the "magic sword' too, which can the hard scales of snakes/gorgons (and KQ2 has a 'magic sword')...

...and the mirror shield (see KQ3).

http://www.myth-and-fantasy.com/pegasus/plore.html

It always seemed for many puzzles Roberta didn't always just resort to just one fairy tale for inspiration but sometimes merged several ideas. In KQ5 for example the Weeping Willow, the Witch of the Forest, the Heart Tree, Golden heart, and Prince are all elements that come together as part of a side story. But each part is basically inspired by different fairy tales including Rapunzel, Baba Yaga, The Old Woman in the Wood, The Heart of Princess Joan, maybe some others I haven't discovered yet.

Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #252 on: August 24, 2015, 02:56:28 AM »
What the New King's Quest Series needs is more fairy tale inspiration. That was something that made King's Quest, the series that it was.

Other than blatant rips from Monty Python, Princess Bride, and modern pop culture. It's weird twist on generic fantasy tropes such as bridge trolls, goblins, and unicorns (make that 'majestic unicorns'), and odd one off references to 'magic elves', 'were-bears', 'crystal dragons', 'witches', 'ice orcs', 'minotaurs', 'spriggan' and 'yetis', or 'griffin' or 'hydra' (many of which are more King's Quest name drops than fairy tale referencing).

I can't think of anything in it that seemed to take directly fairy tale inspiration especially in the puzzle design, and stories (other than pretty much Princess Bride). Let me know if I actually missed any...

Baggins

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #253 on: August 24, 2015, 10:30:44 AM »
Well I think the only benefit that having gamepad control with regards to these games (although having mouse as well would be nice), is that if they properly implement force feedback, the additional vibrations during earthquakes and stuff, or movement of giant creatures, or physical falls, etc, can be add an extra layer of immersion.

Brainiac

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Re: Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.
« Reply #254 on: August 24, 2015, 04:54:02 PM »
I'm referring to an article Braniac put up, that has nothing to do with the new game.

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