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Messages - eXoScoriae

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1
You seem to be a pathological liar.

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Some of you may remember that my wife's picture on Splash Mountain went viral last year, and as a result, we were invited to come back down for this weekend.

You were "invited" back? Really? By who?

Disney does not invite people out and pay for their trips simply because they had an image go viral.

Secondly, your wife talks about planning the trip on her twitter account. She denotes where you stayed, pics of the magic bands coming in, etc. Don't try and play this off as some "free" thing.

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right now I had to put all the boxes that contain the various elements of the boxes (The DVDs, the art card inserts, brochures, red-eye magnifying glasses, boxes of the companions, the boxes that hold the folded up big-boxes, the buttons, the stickers, etc. Shipping Boxes) into storage during the holidays

So you were lying in December when you said you were still shipping consistently.

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I've been extremely anemic, and they think I may be bleeding internally somewhere, but they don't know where.

So going to Disney World and eating refined foods that deplete the body of iron is what your doc suggested? You are saying you have all these tests, and colonoscopies,  etc you just jetted off to Disney World for 5 days and ate crap food constantly (Both your twitter accounts go on and on about all the crap you ate). Pics of you drinking coke, eating pizza, giant cinnamon rolls, etc... If you are indeed dealing with such serious kidney problems, then it is mind boggling that you would do that to yourself.

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I'm working on the boxes and packages.

No your not. You just claimed you have it all in storage. And not a single person can vouch for you that you have sent a single thing.

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Like I've said, I've sent out many single DVDs and Books

There is literally zero proof of this. On every other KS I have backed, the moment physical goods started arriving people started posting about it. Someone mentioned previously that they had only once seen something even posted on eBay, and you seemed to know who it was the moment they mentioned it. If you can identify that person simply because it got posted to eBay, that suggests you only ever sent a single thing out.

No one here hates you. But that doesn't mean we aren't sick of your shit either. You accepted $93,000. You have been completely silent on your second game kickstarter for over a year. On your other one you have repeatedly posted excuses. You say things like, "I'm not hard to find" and "you can always find me on the forums", but then you ignore everything for nearly 2 months.

You promise to ship things out, and you don't do it.

You promise refunds, and then you don't reply or acknowledge you ever brought it up.

You have run out of goodwill with me and several other backers at this point.

This morning I received a very well researched email that lists all the things you have said and done on multiple websites. Obviously people are tired of your crap when they are doing that much research and forwarding it to me.

You have taken advantage of the kindness and patience of the same people who you too money from for too long. There is absolutely zero excuses at this point. But that is all you are doing. You repeatedly fail to make an actual plan of action. You repeatedly fail to set a time table and stick to it. You repeatedly state you are sending out 3 a week, until you back peddle and say it is all in storage and has been through the holidays.

Up until now you've just had a few frustrated people calling you on your crap.

2
BT is perfectly fine. He is too busy going to Disneyworld to deal with us.

https://www.reddit.com/user/blackthorne519

As you can see from his reddit profile, he pretty much posts exclusively to the disneyworld subreddit, and he has been mutliple times in the past year.

Any argument that he doesn't have the money to send off items goes right out the window when you realized what he spends it on. Any argument that he doesn't have time to ship items goes right out the window when you realize he spends day and night on social media and reddit. Any argument that he doesn't have time to check his KS pages or respond here on the forums goes right out the window when you see he posts daily to his various accounts.

I have begun writing an article about BT's shenanigans, broken promises, absences, and false claims. So far I have interest from mutiple tech & game blogs in publishing it once it is finished. I am also going to post it on every adventure game forum I can find, subreddit, and any other place that has people who care about such things.

On top of all that, I am going to follow through my my original threats of legal action. Anyone who reads through this thread can see I have given Steven ample time to respond and I gave him multiple options to avoid this. From refunding me (which he originally said he would do) to being transparent about the process (which he is incapable of).  All the evidence I need is right here and in the kickstarter comments.

I have been patient. I have been clear about what I intended to do. I have offered several alternatives to legal action. I have offered to assist. I have offered BT time for explanation. I have given him multiple opportunities to follow through on his promises, and he has broken every single one of them.

3
I'll leave it to others to determine his facebook status. The simple fact is he ought to be active on his own bloody forums.

4
Might as well scream into a well for all the good it does anyone.

BT claimed over on the KS page that he wasn't hard to find, and how easy it is to get a hold of him. Yet when we post on his actual forums, what sort of response do we get? Nothing.

So line up Brandon and anyone else who wants to make excuses. I'd love to hear your rational as to why BT has been MIA for over 3 weeks, going on a month at this point. Tell us how hard his life is that responding to any of this is just totally out of the question. Explain what he *really* meant when he told us how easy he was to get a hold of.

Did he promise that on a Friday? Because I know we have already established that things he promises on a Friday don't actually have any meaning (one of the absolute most fucking ridiculous things I've ever read in defense of someone else).

Go ahead and tell me what he really meant when he offered me a refund. Or what he really meant when he said swore he was sending out 3 packages a week.

This is pathetic.

Hey BT. I've been patient long enough. You threw a little fit when I threatened legal action, about how I didn't give you a chance. Well, you've had your chance. You have chosen to ignore the PM I sent you. You have ignored this thread. You have ignored the kickstarter comment section.

So, to be clear here, you owe many of us physical rewards for the first game. You owe many of us a third game. And you owe many of us physical rewards for the second and third game. Just wanted to make it clear this isn't about one guy bitching about where his box is.

5
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Okay, that right there is a horses*** argument

Nope, my example was showing that even when I didn't owe something to anybody and I was dealing with issues like health, having children, death in the family, etc... I still finished things up.

So I know that if I had actually owed it to someone to get something to them, I would have had made that my priority.

The fact is, I had less on the line and still came through with a huge project. He has more on the line and less he has to actually (ship some boxes).

Lets not forget his second kickstarter is unresolved as well. It promised 2 games. There is only one out. So in reality, this is about more than just some boxes being shipped. It includes an unfinished game as well.

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but you forgot personal life..
family, baby, the misses, health, all could and might be a factor.

Nope, I haven't forgotten. As a matter of fact, I just recently wrote:
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I understand there are delays. I understand family happens. I understand people get sick, or hell, in some cases there have been projects I backed where a key team member has died. Sometimes money runs out. Sometimes key people leave the team and take the knowledge and or money with them.

In this case however, going strictly by what Steven has said in project updates, and leaving out all this conjecture and guesswork that is so prevalent with the excuses on this board, then none of the above are really the problem.

Let me be very clear. In my PM to Steven I expressed concern that he might be battling depression.
He lost a grandfather
He had a child (this does cause depression in some people, especially if they think they aren't up to the task for whatever reason)
His company wasn't profitable enough and had to fold
According to people here, the KS money is gone and he is still on the hook to send things out.
etc...

I ultimately said he could follow through with his offer to refund me and I'll just go away, or I offered to help him. If money is the issue, I would happily send $20 to cover my stuff and then help him look into raising a second set of funds to get everyone else's out. Or, if I knew how much still needed to be shipped and how much he needed to get it all out, I might even consider loaning the money myself and working out some kind of slow repayment plan over time (totally spitballing here). If I lived close enough, I'd help him assemble the damn boxes and get everything packed, so at least the only step left would be to ship them.

The point is, I offered to help. But to do so, I have to know the real problem. According to him, he just doesn't have time to do more than a few a week. I've made it clear that I don't believe he is even doing a few a week. And even the people who defend him here have all said that they think money is a big part of it. It can't be as simple as just being an inability to find a safe way to send the boxes. We *all* know that is total bullshit, even the super apologists.

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posting on this thread is just asking to set himself up

Steven has opted to not respond to that PM. He has neither taken me up on my offer to help or his offer to refund me.  At this point he is blowing me off after offering that refund. So that marks two times he has directly lied to me.


6
@eXoScoriae did you actually try to contact him during those weeks? I mean if he promised to send the pics & such the very next day and failed to do so, you can assume that he is 1) busy and/or 2) forgot about it. Again, if you didn't (it's unclear from your last post), then you should've contacted him the next week. This could be a bit off-topic, but making promises for friday afternoons should not be taken very seriously. :D


No, I left him alone. Others (the other two who were promised this), had both contacted him during this time. I was being patient and giving him time, rather than harassing him every week.

Besides, contacting him the next week (like the other guy did) wouldn't have helped, because he simply stopped responding to everyone on the KS boards (both in the comments and personal messages). Steven stopped responding to the few PM's I sent him over at KS months ago. And no, I wasn't being a dick at that point.

Now we are saying that we shouldn't take promises for Friday afternoon seriously? Christ, I hope you are joking, because the level of excuses around here is at an all time low.

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I believe that he might've sent 3 boxes per week at the start, but then it slowed down/stopped due to other stuff coming in his life.


Well, that goes directly against what he has said, which counts as another lie. Anytime he has been questioned on the kickstarter about the shipping schedule he has sworn up and down that he is still sending 3 per week. As I said several messages ago, based on when he first claimed this combined with the number of backers who have physical rewards and the time that has passed, if he had actually been sending out 3 per week, he would almost be done by now. So the math simply doesn't add up.

I'll try and be clear here about this, because the race to hurl insults at anyone who shows up in this thread seems to bury the message. I'm not mad that I don't have my boxed copy in my hands. I understand delays. Go to any other KS that I'm waiting for items on, and you will not see long posts from me criticizing the process or requesting a refund.

At most you will find posts from me asking for an update from the creators if it has been several months with no word.

I understand there are delays. I understand family happens. I understand people get sick, or hell, in some cases there have been projects I backed where a key team member has died. Sometimes money runs out. Sometimes key people leave the team and take the knowledge and or money with them.

In this case however, going strictly by what Steven has said in project updates, and leaving out all this conjecture and guesswork that is so prevalent with the excuses on this board, then none of the above are really the problem.

If I assume everything Steven has said to be the truth, then all of the physical rewards are sitting on his floor. I am also to believe he has been sending out 3 a week, as he continually claims to be doing this even when people claim he hasn't been. I am to believe he sent one or two big boxes out and they arrived damaged, and this caused him to stop sending big boxes out as he was afraid of more getting damaged. Users (including myself), have pointed out that he could send the box flat and allow the recipient to assemble the box or posted the types of boxes that he could use to protect a fully assembled item. He has not responded to any of these suggestions to explain why they would not work.

For that matter, he never directly addresses anything. All he does is consistently maintain the stance that he *is* still shipping, and it will just be some time. That is essentially a non response. It doesn't tell anyone anything. There is zero evidence that anything has been shipped, let alone the 100's of items that would have gone out by now at the rate of 3 per week.

I'm frustrated with this wall. I'm frustrated with promises to people (both for myself and the two others) to send something out and then total waffle on it and give no good reason and no effort to make up for it. I'm frustrated with the constant excuses. We all have down times. We all experience loss. Many of us have children. Most of us have full time jobs. And I am more than willing to tell someone like Steven to take the time to enjoy or grieve over these things. Take time to get healthy when you are sick. Take time to enjoy your children. Take time to mourn your grandfather. What I;'m seeing however is *all* of the time going to this. And while that would be fine for most people, if you have a financial obligation, then you have to find time for it.

I myself have sunken over 1,500 hours in the past 5-6 years on my work for preserving and making older PC games (DOS / Win3x) playable. I have had a full time job that entire time. I have a wife. I have had two children born in that time (I remember working on the cover art for one of my collections while waiting in the hospital for my son). I have been incredibly sick during that time. I've been hospitalized and had multiple back surgeries. I've had pneumonia.

But I've still gotten my projects done.

And guess what? I don't even get paid for them. Nobody gave me over $50,000 and said, "Hey, get a team together and get this out by X date". It was all volunteer work. I could have walked away at any time and I wouldn't have owed a single person anything. But I didn't. Because I started that project and I decided to finish that project.

So if Steven wants to be upfront and honest with the reasons for the delays, then I am willing to give him time and even support him through whatever it is that is causing the problem. But as it stands. He has lied about a promised ship date and he has lied about sending 3 per week. Once a content creator is no longer honest with me, I loose my patience and no longer want to be involved.

So he can either give me my money back or he can start being honest and quit the bullshit.

7
I love how criticisms of the length of my post are supposed to somehow undermine the content. Point out any specific part of my post where I am wrong. Please. What I have primarily done here is create a timeline to show just how long this has dragged on for, because some folks here have a very warped definition of "trying the best that he can".

So if your allergic to words, prepare for a breakout.

First, I am not the one who doesn't think he has boxes. I simply think he has lied about sending 3 per week as he has claimed multiple times. They would almost all be delivered by now had he been sending out 3 per week since he first said he was doing that.

To answer your question @DosboxLetsPlay , why would he still be promising to send them, it happens all the time on dead kickstarters.

KS creators will continue to make promises, sometimes for years, before finally just going silent. In that time, more and more people from the KS give up and move on.

The longer he drags it out, the less pissed off people there are at the finish line. But I doubt that is the case here.

My guess is he honestly thinks he will get around to sending things out, but never does. Every time he pops in with an update I think he fully intends to jump on board and get things moving. And instead sends like 2 or 3 games out and goes back to real life and forgets about this for several months. What I know to be true is that he has not been sending out as many games as he has claimed to. What I know to be true is that flat rate shipping boxes from the USPS are free, will fit a big box game and protect it, and are less than the amount of money we all tagged on to our pledges to cover shipping. What I know to be true is that he promised mine would go out, and then waited nearly 2 months to show up and give no good reason and no new estimate.

Here is the exchange from the KS comments:

======================
Helmishgen on October 27
Steven, a suggestion if I may. Ship to eXo Scoriae or Paskarl or myself, we will then post here that we have received and that should, at the very least, let those who look for info here know that packages are in fact going out. I know there are only us vocal few who are still posting here but the fact that no one has posted stating they have received their items is concerning.

Steven "Blackthorne" Alexander 3-time creator on October 27
Right, probably because they aren't checking back here - I'll make sure to send your packages out next. I'm sending out some tomorrow (Friday) and I will specifically send your packages. I'll send you guys receipts and pics via PM tomorrow afternoon.
=======================

Helmishgen waited about 2 weeks before saying anything, even though he was promised receipts and pics via PM the very next day.

Paskarl waited 3 weeks before confirming he also had not received anything.

I waited 6 weeks before chiming in to confirm I had received nothing. I waited, because maybe he forgot the pics or the PM, but had sent the box. 6 weeks was long enough to determine that had not happened.

At any time in that 6 weeks did Steven drop in and say, "Sorry guys, I got busy. Here is a realistic estimate as to when I can get it out..."? No.

He didn't show up until I PM'd him with the words "legal action". Then suddenly we get an update. And what did that update say? I won't promise you when I can send your items, because I have no idea when, and I don't want that promise held against me. Unfortunately, it was already too late for that. The best thing he could have done there was to just fulfill the promise late, and get it off his plate. Not because "it's mine and I need it now", but because he specifically called me out as one of the three people he was going to send to. I didn't ask for that, he brought it up. But I'm entitled or a troll for asking him to hold to his word? Yea right.

Ultimately though, none of the apologists here are going to change their mind about anything. People like Brandon give money away and then shrug their shoulders and expect everyone else to do the same if things don't turn out. And then try to make personal comments about my income and how poor I must be to care about a few hundred bucks (you are such a good little Christian Brandon).

I'm not here to convince brandon, or dosboxletsplay, or anyone else as to if I am right or not. I'm here because Steven stopped replying over on the KS.

8
Bullshit Brandon.

I had many discussions with Steven over on the KS system, both in comments and in PM before I ever said anything about legal action.  Legal action came up 3 months after he promised to send mine out specifically and 1 year after he said he was sending them out.

I was plenty patient with him.

And I really don't care what you think the spirit of kickstarter is. Go preach at your sunday school if you want to tell others what to believe. Let me explain to you the facts about kickstarter, and not your personal little myth you've created for yourself.

I supported Steven and Co. to produce a game, and in return for my support IQ owes me an end product.

See those tiers with promised rewards? Those are not "maybe if the stars line up you'll get this" suggestions.

Every single legal action taken against a KS creator who hasn't delivered on the rewards has succeeded. So regardless of what you *think* the spirit of kickstarter is, it is a legal contract with an obligation to follow through.

Now, I don't know how many Kickstarters you supported, but I supported over a 100. And across all those kickstarters I put up around 20k of my own money. A good 2k of that is currently tied up with crap like this. Originally I had around 5k in unfulfilled items. It was only because I made it clear to the creators that they owed me, that I got around 3k of that back. Most of those people never actually finished anything. Nor did they refund everyone. They only refunded the few who made it clear they weren't leaving without one (Oh Neal Stephenson, I'm looking at you particularly hard right now).

That 2k is things that either never delivered or stalled out, or whatever.

If I had your attitude, I'd be out about 5k right now. Instead, I'm only out about 2k right now. Some of that is fine and doesn't bother me.  Either I got enough out of the project to feel my money was worth it, or the guys involved did enough with the money that I felt it went to a good cause.

Boxes sitting on someone's living room floor for nearly 18 months doesn't fall into one of my categories of "oh well, that was well spent".

If I felt Steven was actually working in good faith to get things shipped out, I wouldn't be concerned. As long as someone is trying, I will be patient. I have kickstarters much older than this one where the game isn't even done yet. I have others, such as armikrog, where the box is even more over due than this one. But the difference is, those guys aren't claiming the box is sitting on their living room floor, but they don't have the time to ship it. The difference is, those guys are active on the boards and immediately respond to PMs.

BT stopped responding to me back around October. I tried as few more times, left a few more messages on the boards over there, and finally had to come over here to get a response. BT isn't trying. He isn't even responding. There is NO VALID EXCUSE for having all the products at his home, as he claims, and being unable to send them out. Either he is misleading people, and he does not have the product\ran out of money\etc... or he is one of the laziest people I've ever known.

I will be encouraging all other folks over at the KS who are tired of this to encourage refunds as well at this point.

And as far as you go Brandon, I really don't give a shit what you think.  You've made it extremely clear you don't know the full story between BT and I, so do yourself a favor and go find a race you actually have a horse in. You aren't doing Steven any favors acting like such a little prick here on the boards. All your doing is pissing off the people who are already frustrated even more. Steven can thank you personally for me requesting a refund. Being patient while Steven tries to figure things out is one thing. Dealing with punks like you? Nope. I don't need that.

9
Ok, I've been thinking on it and I'll take my money back @Blackthorne . It's better than logging into this site every week or so and dealing with folks who take valid concerns and frustrations and simply try and write them off as entitlement.

I pledged $120 to the QfI KS. I did not receive anything above and beyond the $10 tier. No t-shirt or big box or any of that. So that leaves $110 of money due back to me from that kickstarter.

I pledged $220 to the second kickstarter.  $120 of that was intended to be for the big box  + slim case addon. So that $120 is definitely due back to me.

That brings my total to $230 due back to me, after receiving my $10 QfI key and $100 for shenanigans such as the "Isle of the Honored" in OotT, which I'm not sure if I'm even there or not. Hell, I'm not even asking for my money back for the third game which may not ever even release.

It's pretty sad when an "associate producer" of the game has to ask for his money back. It's even sadder when the people behind it allow it to come to this in the first place. All, if BT is to be believed, because it was too hard to find a box.


10
You can call me childish or entitled all you want, it doesn't debase or change the point I made.

That timeline speaks for itself, and defending it at this point simply makes you look silly.

I would be curious to know how many years of BT claiming he has everything in his living room and just doesn't know how to ship it before one can be legitimately upset? Please tell me how much longer Steven can claim he doesn't know how to ship a box before anyone who has been to the post office once in their life is allowed to raise an eyebrow. Tell me how many updates he is allowed to make claiming he is sending things out (with zero evidence or corroborative support from *anyone* who has received something) before a person is allowed to get frustrated without it being childish. Is it 4 updates? 5? 6? 10? Please, tell me, because it really seems to me that people like Brandon are circle jerking and defending Steven no matter what he says or does. It's less a matter of me, or anyone else, acting childish and/or entitled, and more a matter of Brandon saying, "Hey, leave my buddy alone. Ignore that fact he has repeatedly broken promises to you and has your money".

How entitled are you Brandon, to think that people who put hundreds of bucks down on this *don't* have a right to be upset? You're living in a hypocritical bubble.

Speaking of which, how many of you white knights did he personally promise to have their stuff shipped out by now? I can answer that. Zero. I on the other hand actually do fall into that category. So is it entitled of me to expect something that Steven specifically said would be in the mail by a certain Friday last October? Excuse me, you seem to have confused the world "entitled" for "believing what someone said".

And some of you have the audacity to claim he is trying the best that he can? If that's true, then it's also incredibly sad. Have you ever stopped to consider that?

To address a few other thoughts here:
1. Money was offered back to me: Yes, he did offer a refund, however we never discussed the details. Why? Because, like you, I cared enough about this project to put money into it. Like you, I ultimately hope to have a boxed copy of this game sitting on my shelf. I wouldn't have waited around this long or been this vocal about it had it not been what I wanted in the first place. It's also a bit hard to swallow walking away at this point when, apparently, my stuff is just sitting right there on his floor. But, then again, that requires me believing that my stuff is actually sitting there and that BT's lack of knowledge of a flat rate mailing box is the only thing stopping it from arriving. On the other hand, my enthusiasm for the project is severely waning at this point. So I'm not sure if having a boxed copy on my shelf at some point will be a victory or simply a reminder of all the douchery.

2. Legal Action: Money was *not* being offered to me at the time I brought this up. So don't try to restate the narrative. At the time I mentioned legal action I, like all of you, had parted with my money years ago and had nothing to show for it besides a steam key that I could have bought for a few bucks. It's only because I brought up legal action that my money was offered back to me. Legal action is incredibly cheap when you have access to a lawyer, so it wouldn't put me out anything. What it would do it put BT in a situation where he has to respond or face a default judgement, and by responding he would need a lawyer himself unless he actually tried to file all the required documentation himself. Do I want to deal with all that and do that to BT? No. Am I sick of being strung along with false promises? Hell yes I am. So I had 2 options. Continue sitting around waiting for BT to figure out something incredibly simple and basic, such as how to ship a boxed game, or consider taking action. I considered action, and in return it got me an offer of a refund. Which I am still considering.

The defenders keep saying Steven is doing his best. As I said earlier, if that can actually be said in earnest, then it is impossibly sad. It frankly means that Steven is a failure at this point. There is no stretch of the definition of success that can describe this situation, unless you take the extremely cynical road and assume success means taking everyone's money, producing a game, and then shutting the company down and not shipping out the rest. We all know that wasn't the intention however, and I also know Steven didn't set out to take people's money. I am confident his original intentions were good.

On the other hand, unlike many of you, Steven has blatantly lied to me. So if you think it's childish for me to call him out on that, then I've got something much more childish I suggest you go and do.

I'd also like to point out that I had dropped several hundred on not only a big box for this game, but also for his other two. I imagine that I can leave my KS pledge to my children in my will, and if Order of the Thorne ever actually ships, it can go to them or their children. It sure as hell won't ship in my lifetime. Hah.

11


Since you don't seem to be aware of this, that is what you ship big boxes in. I have purchased hundreds of big box games from eBay in the past 15 years. I have never had a problem with one of them being crushed when they were shipped using a box such as that one. Amazingly, they are also free. You go to the post office and ask for a stack and they will give it to you.  This isn't rocket science. Your not the first person who ever had to send a big boxed game."

And if sending the big box *is* such a problem, as well as assembling them, then use a reinforced flat pack envelope and just send the box flat. I can't speak for everyone else, but I would have no problem folding the box myself if assembly is so time consuming.

You first raised concerns about the big boxes getting crushed this past spring. And that was fine. I was glad to see you were being careful in how you approached this. In what world though does it take another 8 or 9 months to figure out how to send a box in the mail? Your acting like finding a way to send these things is some huge mystery that remains unsolved. I mean seriously man, I've seen a lot of far out there excuses for kickstarters getting dragged on and on. But simply being unable to figure out how to ship something for months on end? That's an all time low.

At this point, I am going to stay on you until you actually follow through with your responsibility. You have made it clear that when people leave you alone, nothing happens. You apparently need someone sitting over your shoulder reminding you that you have an obligation to fulfill.

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