Author Topic: Has anyone actually received their physical boxed edition of Quest for Infamy?  (Read 46264 times)

Kaldire

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:(

crosses fingers n toes for ye and us all
and i dont think steven thinks this was a success in terms of shipping.  he has stated that on many posts
its HELL to box up stuff
trust that..
ttg's again took sometimes 6 months to pack just 1 game and that was with a team of playtesters licking envelopes !
bt has well maybe his baby to help lick stuff.. lol

ahem

anyway, here is hoping it gets going, and best of luck to ye mate' im truly sorry this ended up so far out mate. I still have the faith though.
not only that id never ask for a refund, hell im in the credits of the game, twice! whoot
might not be what I paid for but, tis a' very nice.

gl bt! and.. urmm happy new year to ye' and your family my good chap
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eXoScoriae

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You bring a very positive and supportive spirit to this forum @Kaldire. It is appreciated.

MusicallyInspired

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I had a very very long response to each of your points, but instead I decided to just leave it at these two points.

You jumped to "legal action" before Steve had a chance to offer a refund. Naturally he responded with a refund because that's supposed to be the first step anyway. You chose to escalate it to legal action first (against an individual, mind you, whose personal finances are on the line) just to get your precious box. You could have requested a refund first. That was your move.

Your whole attitude is not reminiscent of the Kickstarter spirit. Kickstarter is not a store where you buy products. It's a platform where you can support people to make their plans, visions, and dreams come true. They delivered a game, you have it, and you're squabbling about rewards. Their campaign was a success. They finished what they set out to do. It did not fail. You didn't pay for a box, you pledged a higher amount to help production costs for the creation of a game which granted you access to a free box as a reward for helping them make the game. If you really care more about that box and your money than this man doing his best (or suffering depression if he is indeed over his head and just putting it off) then you aren't the kind of person that should be backing Kickstarter projects because these things happen all the time. Most people are understanding of who they choose to back (especially if the project was completed which it absolutely was). You obviously are not. What Steve needs is support not constant hounding and badgering. If you can't understand that concept of human decency or see how it's relevant and still think you should be treating this whole ordeal like a customer demanding what their owed from a large company (who can afford the loss a lot more than one individual and his family's personal finances), then a refund is best for you. You should leave the realm of crowd-funding and never look back.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 07:59:15 PM by MusicallyInspired »

eXoScoriae

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Bullshit Brandon.

I had many discussions with Steven over on the KS system, both in comments and in PM before I ever said anything about legal action.  Legal action came up 3 months after he promised to send mine out specifically and 1 year after he said he was sending them out.

I was plenty patient with him.

And I really don't care what you think the spirit of kickstarter is. Go preach at your sunday school if you want to tell others what to believe. Let me explain to you the facts about kickstarter, and not your personal little myth you've created for yourself.

I supported Steven and Co. to produce a game, and in return for my support IQ owes me an end product.

See those tiers with promised rewards? Those are not "maybe if the stars line up you'll get this" suggestions.

Every single legal action taken against a KS creator who hasn't delivered on the rewards has succeeded. So regardless of what you *think* the spirit of kickstarter is, it is a legal contract with an obligation to follow through.

Now, I don't know how many Kickstarters you supported, but I supported over a 100. And across all those kickstarters I put up around 20k of my own money. A good 2k of that is currently tied up with crap like this. Originally I had around 5k in unfulfilled items. It was only because I made it clear to the creators that they owed me, that I got around 3k of that back. Most of those people never actually finished anything. Nor did they refund everyone. They only refunded the few who made it clear they weren't leaving without one (Oh Neal Stephenson, I'm looking at you particularly hard right now).

That 2k is things that either never delivered or stalled out, or whatever.

If I had your attitude, I'd be out about 5k right now. Instead, I'm only out about 2k right now. Some of that is fine and doesn't bother me.  Either I got enough out of the project to feel my money was worth it, or the guys involved did enough with the money that I felt it went to a good cause.

Boxes sitting on someone's living room floor for nearly 18 months doesn't fall into one of my categories of "oh well, that was well spent".

If I felt Steven was actually working in good faith to get things shipped out, I wouldn't be concerned. As long as someone is trying, I will be patient. I have kickstarters much older than this one where the game isn't even done yet. I have others, such as armikrog, where the box is even more over due than this one. But the difference is, those guys aren't claiming the box is sitting on their living room floor, but they don't have the time to ship it. The difference is, those guys are active on the boards and immediately respond to PMs.

BT stopped responding to me back around October. I tried as few more times, left a few more messages on the boards over there, and finally had to come over here to get a response. BT isn't trying. He isn't even responding. There is NO VALID EXCUSE for having all the products at his home, as he claims, and being unable to send them out. Either he is misleading people, and he does not have the product\ran out of money\etc... or he is one of the laziest people I've ever known.

I will be encouraging all other folks over at the KS who are tired of this to encourage refunds as well at this point.

And as far as you go Brandon, I really don't give a shit what you think.  You've made it extremely clear you don't know the full story between BT and I, so do yourself a favor and go find a race you actually have a horse in. You aren't doing Steven any favors acting like such a little prick here on the boards. All your doing is pissing off the people who are already frustrated even more. Steven can thank you personally for me requesting a refund. Being patient while Steven tries to figure things out is one thing. Dealing with punks like you? Nope. I don't need that.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 10:41:36 AM by eXoScoriae »

DosboxLetsPlay

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eXoScoriae tapped 4 mana to cast the spell "Wall of Text".

In all seriousness though, dude, jesus christ, you rant more than a russian troll. I think it's quite obvious that the majority of what you've said here can be summed up with the words "impatient brat".

Yes, if there was an agreement between you and Steven that he would ship your box before/on a certain date and he hasn't done that then it is bad play on his part. I won't repeat what MusicallyInspired said, but he IS one man and NOT a big company, you seem to have forgotten that while you went on your rampage on him.

It seems that your main issues here is that a) he did not ship your box at the time that was promised and b) as I understand it, you think that the boxes do not even exist, is that it?

I believe that if a) is what really happened, then your box would already be on the priority shipping when Steven finds the time to deal with that, but I think that b) is bothering you equally with a).

The boxes ARE there, if you had followed this whole ordeal from the start, you would've seen the updates that he has posted with pictures where he has stacks upon stacks of boxes in his (living?)room.

As for the shipping, it is pretty clear that this is coming from his own expenses. The rules of Kickstarter are vague in that sense, because Infamous Quests has delivered the main goal of what was expected from the agreement on Kickstarter, meaning that Steven could've come up with LOADS of excuses as to why the physical rewards would not be fulfilled completely (and offer refunds to lawyered-up-the-wazoo people like you), but he has told that he will get the boxes shipped.

Seriously though, why the fuck would he still be saying, after over a year of delays, that he will ship the boxes if he actually doesn't plan to? Answer me this question @eXoScoriae
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eXoScoriae

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I love how criticisms of the length of my post are supposed to somehow undermine the content. Point out any specific part of my post where I am wrong. Please. What I have primarily done here is create a timeline to show just how long this has dragged on for, because some folks here have a very warped definition of "trying the best that he can".

So if your allergic to words, prepare for a breakout.

First, I am not the one who doesn't think he has boxes. I simply think he has lied about sending 3 per week as he has claimed multiple times. They would almost all be delivered by now had he been sending out 3 per week since he first said he was doing that.

To answer your question @DosboxLetsPlay , why would he still be promising to send them, it happens all the time on dead kickstarters.

KS creators will continue to make promises, sometimes for years, before finally just going silent. In that time, more and more people from the KS give up and move on.

The longer he drags it out, the less pissed off people there are at the finish line. But I doubt that is the case here.

My guess is he honestly thinks he will get around to sending things out, but never does. Every time he pops in with an update I think he fully intends to jump on board and get things moving. And instead sends like 2 or 3 games out and goes back to real life and forgets about this for several months. What I know to be true is that he has not been sending out as many games as he has claimed to. What I know to be true is that flat rate shipping boxes from the USPS are free, will fit a big box game and protect it, and are less than the amount of money we all tagged on to our pledges to cover shipping. What I know to be true is that he promised mine would go out, and then waited nearly 2 months to show up and give no good reason and no new estimate.

Here is the exchange from the KS comments:

======================
Helmishgen on October 27
Steven, a suggestion if I may. Ship to eXo Scoriae or Paskarl or myself, we will then post here that we have received and that should, at the very least, let those who look for info here know that packages are in fact going out. I know there are only us vocal few who are still posting here but the fact that no one has posted stating they have received their items is concerning.

Steven "Blackthorne" Alexander 3-time creator on October 27
Right, probably because they aren't checking back here - I'll make sure to send your packages out next. I'm sending out some tomorrow (Friday) and I will specifically send your packages. I'll send you guys receipts and pics via PM tomorrow afternoon.
=======================

Helmishgen waited about 2 weeks before saying anything, even though he was promised receipts and pics via PM the very next day.

Paskarl waited 3 weeks before confirming he also had not received anything.

I waited 6 weeks before chiming in to confirm I had received nothing. I waited, because maybe he forgot the pics or the PM, but had sent the box. 6 weeks was long enough to determine that had not happened.

At any time in that 6 weeks did Steven drop in and say, "Sorry guys, I got busy. Here is a realistic estimate as to when I can get it out..."? No.

He didn't show up until I PM'd him with the words "legal action". Then suddenly we get an update. And what did that update say? I won't promise you when I can send your items, because I have no idea when, and I don't want that promise held against me. Unfortunately, it was already too late for that. The best thing he could have done there was to just fulfill the promise late, and get it off his plate. Not because "it's mine and I need it now", but because he specifically called me out as one of the three people he was going to send to. I didn't ask for that, he brought it up. But I'm entitled or a troll for asking him to hold to his word? Yea right.

Ultimately though, none of the apologists here are going to change their mind about anything. People like Brandon give money away and then shrug their shoulders and expect everyone else to do the same if things don't turn out. And then try to make personal comments about my income and how poor I must be to care about a few hundred bucks (you are such a good little Christian Brandon).

I'm not here to convince brandon, or dosboxletsplay, or anyone else as to if I am right or not. I'm here because Steven stopped replying over on the KS.

DosboxLetsPlay

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@eXoScoriae did you actually try to contact him during those weeks? I mean if he promised to send the pics & such the very next day and failed to do so, you can assume that he is 1) busy and/or 2) forgot about it. Again, if you didn't (it's unclear from your last post), then you should've contacted him the next week. This could be a bit off-topic, but making promises for friday afternoons should not be taken very seriously. :D

I believe that he might've sent 3 boxes per week at the start, but then it slowed down/stopped due to other stuff coming in his life.

As for your answer to my question, you could be right, I do not have backed a lot on Kickstarter and I have read plenty of stories how kickstarter creators rip off people cruelly, but this is not a dead Kickstarter. They gave a full, long, proper game which I and many others thoroughly enjoyed, so I don't think you can categorize this project with the rest in that "graveyard".

IF he has all the necessary funds + time to send out the boxes, then the only argument you could make is that he is lazy and just won't bother with it, but I very much doubt that that is the case here. He has nothing else to do with these boxes. If he tried to rip us off and sell these boxes to someone else, people would find out about it.

This is just a matter of time and patience, and while I do truly understand that it sucks for you to getting a promise which has not been fulfilled, I think (at least I hope) in good time, we will all receive our boxes and other physical rewards that have not yet been shipped.
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eXoScoriae

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@eXoScoriae did you actually try to contact him during those weeks? I mean if he promised to send the pics & such the very next day and failed to do so, you can assume that he is 1) busy and/or 2) forgot about it. Again, if you didn't (it's unclear from your last post), then you should've contacted him the next week. This could be a bit off-topic, but making promises for friday afternoons should not be taken very seriously. :D


No, I left him alone. Others (the other two who were promised this), had both contacted him during this time. I was being patient and giving him time, rather than harassing him every week.

Besides, contacting him the next week (like the other guy did) wouldn't have helped, because he simply stopped responding to everyone on the KS boards (both in the comments and personal messages). Steven stopped responding to the few PM's I sent him over at KS months ago. And no, I wasn't being a dick at that point.

Now we are saying that we shouldn't take promises for Friday afternoon seriously? Christ, I hope you are joking, because the level of excuses around here is at an all time low.

Quote
I believe that he might've sent 3 boxes per week at the start, but then it slowed down/stopped due to other stuff coming in his life.


Well, that goes directly against what he has said, which counts as another lie. Anytime he has been questioned on the kickstarter about the shipping schedule he has sworn up and down that he is still sending 3 per week. As I said several messages ago, based on when he first claimed this combined with the number of backers who have physical rewards and the time that has passed, if he had actually been sending out 3 per week, he would almost be done by now. So the math simply doesn't add up.

I'll try and be clear here about this, because the race to hurl insults at anyone who shows up in this thread seems to bury the message. I'm not mad that I don't have my boxed copy in my hands. I understand delays. Go to any other KS that I'm waiting for items on, and you will not see long posts from me criticizing the process or requesting a refund.

At most you will find posts from me asking for an update from the creators if it has been several months with no word.

I understand there are delays. I understand family happens. I understand people get sick, or hell, in some cases there have been projects I backed where a key team member has died. Sometimes money runs out. Sometimes key people leave the team and take the knowledge and or money with them.

In this case however, going strictly by what Steven has said in project updates, and leaving out all this conjecture and guesswork that is so prevalent with the excuses on this board, then none of the above are really the problem.

If I assume everything Steven has said to be the truth, then all of the physical rewards are sitting on his floor. I am also to believe he has been sending out 3 a week, as he continually claims to be doing this even when people claim he hasn't been. I am to believe he sent one or two big boxes out and they arrived damaged, and this caused him to stop sending big boxes out as he was afraid of more getting damaged. Users (including myself), have pointed out that he could send the box flat and allow the recipient to assemble the box or posted the types of boxes that he could use to protect a fully assembled item. He has not responded to any of these suggestions to explain why they would not work.

For that matter, he never directly addresses anything. All he does is consistently maintain the stance that he *is* still shipping, and it will just be some time. That is essentially a non response. It doesn't tell anyone anything. There is zero evidence that anything has been shipped, let alone the 100's of items that would have gone out by now at the rate of 3 per week.

I'm frustrated with this wall. I'm frustrated with promises to people (both for myself and the two others) to send something out and then total waffle on it and give no good reason and no effort to make up for it. I'm frustrated with the constant excuses. We all have down times. We all experience loss. Many of us have children. Most of us have full time jobs. And I am more than willing to tell someone like Steven to take the time to enjoy or grieve over these things. Take time to get healthy when you are sick. Take time to enjoy your children. Take time to mourn your grandfather. What I;'m seeing however is *all* of the time going to this. And while that would be fine for most people, if you have a financial obligation, then you have to find time for it.

I myself have sunken over 1,500 hours in the past 5-6 years on my work for preserving and making older PC games (DOS / Win3x) playable. I have had a full time job that entire time. I have a wife. I have had two children born in that time (I remember working on the cover art for one of my collections while waiting in the hospital for my son). I have been incredibly sick during that time. I've been hospitalized and had multiple back surgeries. I've had pneumonia.

But I've still gotten my projects done.

And guess what? I don't even get paid for them. Nobody gave me over $50,000 and said, "Hey, get a team together and get this out by X date". It was all volunteer work. I could have walked away at any time and I wouldn't have owed a single person anything. But I didn't. Because I started that project and I decided to finish that project.

So if Steven wants to be upfront and honest with the reasons for the delays, then I am willing to give him time and even support him through whatever it is that is causing the problem. But as it stands. He has lied about a promised ship date and he has lied about sending 3 per week. Once a content creator is no longer honest with me, I loose my patience and no longer want to be involved.

So he can either give me my money back or he can start being honest and quit the bullshit.

helmishgen

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Ultimately, it behooves BT more than anyone to get it done.  No more product sitting in his house, no more stressing over it, and no more people busting his chops.  Seems like a wise course of action to me.

k0SH

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BT - You have sort of a db with the persons you already send stuff too, right?
So it shouldn't be a big deal to share a list of backer names with the date and items you've send them.


You can post an update on a weekly base.
Takes you like 10 mins or less to post 3-5 more names plus items you've shipped.
Just backer names shouldn't be a big privacy issue or so too.

If you're doing 3 a week - as you've said - it takes 33 weeks to send 100 packages.
Close to 200 packes per year.
Interesting that 15 month after your 'promise yours will be next' nothing arrived.
And I still haven't seen a single (!) pic of someone sharing the box he received!!

+1 to what eXoScoriae said.

This is so not cool.


PS. "I had one backer report that his box arrived in bad condition, so I'm trying a new kind of cardboard box and filler to send the stuff"
Any status update here? Your said that for the first time over a year (!) ago.
Found a nice box and already sending boxed copies?

« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 08:56:47 PM by k0SH »

eXoScoriae

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What is really sad is at this point Steven has decided to just completely ignore this thread.

He was active on the boards yesterday, yet hasn't responded either here or to the PM I sent him.

He claims " am really not that hard to get ahold of if you need to communicate with me.", and yet here we are, on his own website, and he hasn't made a post since December 28th.

He hasn't address this thread since December 13th, nearly a month ago.

DosboxLetsPlay

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@eXoScoriae Sorry, have been quite busy recently so I haven't had time to reply.

Anyhow, I'll try to keep it short this time:

I don't want to reply with what I have said already, so it'll just be new stuff.

Yeah, well the friday thing IS more of a joke, but there's some truth to that as well. :D

As to the matter of delays and updates, you WOULD get a bigger picture if you followed him on social media channels like FB and twitter, but I understand that one should not be expected to do that to get new info when there's a forum created by the company, ready to use.

And guess what? I don't even get paid for them. Nobody gave me over $50,000 and said, "Hey, get a team together and get this out by X date". It was all volunteer work. I could have walked away at any time and I wouldn't have owed a single person anything. But I didn't. Because I started that project and I decided to finish that project.


Okay, that right there is a horses*** argument. Keep these things in mind:

1) They created a Kickstarter to make a game. THAT is how they got the money and they have a game to show for it.
2) QFI was not voluntary work in that sense (although there were volunteers involved) - they couldn't have taken the money and just walk away with it.
3) I assume you did not even ask for money and it was a project you decided to take on yourself, knowing that you won't get paid for the worked hours, so your work can't really be compared to theirs in that sense?
4) The money from that kickstarter is long gone, Steven does the shipping from personal funds.
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Kaldire

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well also imo
posting on this thread is just asking to set himself up
nothing he say can be right at this point to some,
others might not mind or as much like me etc...

but you forgot personal life..
family, baby, the misses, health, all could and might be a factor.

not trying to gild the lily but, I wouldnt post here just knowing no matter what I posted would be a setup for more flames or upset, its best at this point, imo to avoid (not ignore) threads like this. (maybe not pms but thats why i mention personal life and issues)

me I just hope he is ok, and his family too.. biggest fear here is losing loved ones or them getting ill.
would I be posting   "my kid is in the hosptial with some illness" when on a thread like this it might just seem like another excuse?
nope

anyway no way about it, some stuff shoulda shipped, I still await. with hope.
and truly hope all is ok.

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eXoScoriae

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Quote
Okay, that right there is a horses*** argument

Nope, my example was showing that even when I didn't owe something to anybody and I was dealing with issues like health, having children, death in the family, etc... I still finished things up.

So I know that if I had actually owed it to someone to get something to them, I would have had made that my priority.

The fact is, I had less on the line and still came through with a huge project. He has more on the line and less he has to actually (ship some boxes).

Lets not forget his second kickstarter is unresolved as well. It promised 2 games. There is only one out. So in reality, this is about more than just some boxes being shipped. It includes an unfinished game as well.

Quote
but you forgot personal life..
family, baby, the misses, health, all could and might be a factor.

Nope, I haven't forgotten. As a matter of fact, I just recently wrote:
Quote
I understand there are delays. I understand family happens. I understand people get sick, or hell, in some cases there have been projects I backed where a key team member has died. Sometimes money runs out. Sometimes key people leave the team and take the knowledge and or money with them.

In this case however, going strictly by what Steven has said in project updates, and leaving out all this conjecture and guesswork that is so prevalent with the excuses on this board, then none of the above are really the problem.

Let me be very clear. In my PM to Steven I expressed concern that he might be battling depression.
He lost a grandfather
He had a child (this does cause depression in some people, especially if they think they aren't up to the task for whatever reason)
His company wasn't profitable enough and had to fold
According to people here, the KS money is gone and he is still on the hook to send things out.
etc...

I ultimately said he could follow through with his offer to refund me and I'll just go away, or I offered to help him. If money is the issue, I would happily send $20 to cover my stuff and then help him look into raising a second set of funds to get everyone else's out. Or, if I knew how much still needed to be shipped and how much he needed to get it all out, I might even consider loaning the money myself and working out some kind of slow repayment plan over time (totally spitballing here). If I lived close enough, I'd help him assemble the damn boxes and get everything packed, so at least the only step left would be to ship them.

The point is, I offered to help. But to do so, I have to know the real problem. According to him, he just doesn't have time to do more than a few a week. I've made it clear that I don't believe he is even doing a few a week. And even the people who defend him here have all said that they think money is a big part of it. It can't be as simple as just being an inability to find a safe way to send the boxes. We *all* know that is total bullshit, even the super apologists.

Quote
posting on this thread is just asking to set himself up

Steven has opted to not respond to that PM. He has neither taken me up on my offer to help or his offer to refund me.  At this point he is blowing me off after offering that refund. So that marks two times he has directly lied to me.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 09:57:32 AM by eXoScoriae »

Kaldire

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I also thought to ask if extra money for shipping would help things along, but ive never asked,
if bt reads this

bt mate if thats an option that would help, let us knowith.

hugzzz
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