Infamous Quests

The Games => Order of the Thorne : The King's Challenge => Topic started by: shoptroll on August 10, 2016, 11:08:18 PM

Title: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: shoptroll on August 10, 2016, 11:08:18 PM
Not only do I not have a Twitter account, I also don't have one for Disqus! :p

Feedback was requested, so here it is:

1) Submit this to Gamasutra if you can.  It's a good read, maybe could use some fleshing out but I think this is the start of a conversation that needs to happen sooner or later.  IQ is uniquely positioned as a team which successfully delivered multiple KS projects (QfI, the companion book, and TKC/RtR/FoF), you're a considerable part of what people were dubbing years ago as a "revival" of adventure games, and you're operating in a niche most places don't really talk about.  So many different lenses to talk about this from!

2) The game itself is fine I thought.  I agree that the tone is different than QfI but that seemed intentional (I think I said as much in another thread) since this felt like something aimed at families whereas QfI is what the parents played after the kids went to bed.  I don't necessarily agree that bright and "candy colored" and cheerful isn't something people are interested in.  Look at the success of something like Pokemon Go or many other mobile games which feature bright colorful art.  Or even Amanita Design's stuff which is usually fairly colorful and isn't cynical or "grimdark" (I think).  But I'm also not really tapped in that tightly to what's selling on the market for adventure games.  It might just be possible that there's not a big audience for games that adhere closely to the Sierra style or maybe knight n' princesses style fantasy games/stories are out of favor due to things like Game of Thrones, Dragon Age, and The Witcher.

3) External factors.  I think the King's Quest reboot launching prior to TKC was unfortunate for you guys.  IQ (as well as AGDI/Himalaya and Phoenix) have a pretty good claim to the legacy of Sierra since you've been the public face of maintaining their franchises in the public eye via your VGA remakes.  Maybe if KQ hadn't been rebooted maybe there'd have been more pent-up interest in a "spiritual successor" of sorts?

Coverage in the press also seemed pretty non-existant.  Of the sites that cover PC, I primarily read Eurogamer, RPS, and USGamer.  None of them really had anything in the way of coverage for OotT.  This is especially weird considering RPS did a news post and review about QfI and Richard Cobbett also talked briefly about QfI in one of his regular columns there.  Checking a couple other sites further... There's a news blurb on PCGamer shortly after release but no review, a review on AdventureGamers, nothing on Destructoid, nothing on Polygon.

(On a side note: I'm not 100% sure when it went into effect but I believe Eurogamer also instituted a policy within the last year where they don't review 'episodic' titles until the series is complete.  I'm not totally sure I would consider OotT as episodic but I think you could make a case for that designation when it was originally pitched as a 4-part anthology series.)

So that kinda sucks.  I'm sure you guys got notices out to these sites but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the reason sales are low are because there wasn't much press.  I know the only reason I discovered QfI in the first place was because PCGamer included it in one of their year-end "Upcoming games we're excited about" back in like 2011 (likely because Richard Cobbett was still freelancing with them regularly).

The lack of Richard Cobbett writing probably hasn't helped you either.  For me, and probably others, he's probably been one of the biggest advocates for the genre (and especially classic gems in the genre) among the mainstream press.  As a freelancer he had a pretty good reach between Eurogamer, PCGamer, and RPS.

Would having a publisher have helped more with getting the word out?  I got the sense from QfI that was the main benefit from signing with Phoenix, but that's just an observation.  I have no idea what your arrangement with POS was.

4) Maybe the game needed to be marketed more as a family-friendly adventure?


I need to wrap up this up pretty quick here but here's a some more general thoughts

1) If at all possible I think it would be a good idea to treat QfI 2.0 as a re-launch of the game.  Not in the shifty "let's change the title and get a new Steam/Metacritic id" sense, but as a chance to try and get another round of publicity and sales from it.  Get a new trailer together if you have time.  Seed out some copies to outlets who didn't cover it originally, specifically targeting anyone who's covered the IA remakes in the past.  Revamp your store presences with any awards you won (I know you won some AGS awards).

2) Improve communication with your fans and backers.  I don't remember the last time I've seen an update on Roehm to Ruin or Fortress of Fire in the Kickstarter updates section.  I don't care for constant updates in my inbox but large periods of radio silence make me nervous (*cough*Spaceventure*cough*).  I expect most of the backers on either project even know that you did a post-mortem or the other recent developments.  Another idea here might be an IQ newsletter... it's a little slimy but you've got emails for most of your backers right?  Put them on the newsletter and blast out a reminder about OooT and how the new games are coming along.  Newsletter would be a good way to keep in touch with fans who aren't really on social media or aren't really paying attention to gaming sites.

3) I saw something on Twitter that you guys still get a decent number of inquiries about SQ3 VGA.  Is there anything you can do on the Infamous Adventures site to drive more traffic to the pages for QfI or TKC?

4) Not that you should try and get Youtuber stars to cover the game (that'd be cool but I think the appeal of your games wouldn't be something "the youth" would "get") but maybe as a promotional thing do a stream or do a podcast to talk about your inspirations (ie. Sierra and LucasArts games) as a sort of self-promotion / side project?

5) This relates to #1, but can you get endorsements/"box-quotes" for any of your games from any of the Sierra alumni?  What about other indie adventure game developers? Or someone like Jeff Vogel who deals in lo-fi somewhat throw-backish RPGs?

6) Are Steam coupons still a thing?  Could you send out coupons to owners of either game with a non-trivial (but not great) discount for the other game?

7) When the new games launch, maybe try offering a bundle so people can pick up the new game and the previous release for a slight discount on the price of both?  For example a bundle with QfI and Rohem or a bundle with TKC and Fortress.

8) Can you get in on any upcoming Humble Bundles or their monthly subscription service?

9) Where do Sierra/LucasArts fans congregate these days?  Are there any places with a higher than average concentration of older gamers?  One of the podcasts I listen to, Gamers with Jobs, caters more towards the older crowd with most of the hosts in their 30's or older.  Maybe there's other communities like that?

10) Keep up whatever you are doing on Twitter in regards to Stranger Things.  You know how to tap into that 80's nostalgia vein, and I keep hoping that turns into one of those "right place, right time" success stories.  (Even if nothing comes of it, at least put it out as a fan game and make some noise.  I noticed VG247 ran an article yesterday ( about some sprite art for the show.  So there's enough interest to get attention in places)
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: shoptroll on August 11, 2016, 08:10:30 AM
Some more thoughts:

1) Add the QfI hint/art book available as DLC on Steam if you can.  Then create a $20 "deluxe" edition including it.  Maybe you'll get some extra cash that way?  Also, why isn't it even available on the game's website?  I don't know about the official wiki but I checked and there's absolutely 0 FAQs for the game on GameFAQs, so if you're stuck on a puzzle or quest (like I was) you're really stuck!

2) Can you work something out with James to get the OSTs for your games on Steam as DLC?  That probably won't help out IQ financially but it might help him get some extra cash for his work.

3) Add a Finn cameo appearance in QfI 2.0 if you haven't already.  I know it's gaudy and shameless, but it's totally in the spirit of Sierra and games of that era.  Ask me about Loom!

4) In addition to cameos, Sierra games used to put plugs for upcoming or past games in their about screens.  It can't hurt to do something like that in QfI or TKC right?

5) Bryan Cebulski and Jonathan Kaharl seem to cover AGS games for  See if you can get in contact with them to write about your games.

6) If you have the resources, would adding additional language support help?  Is that something AGS supports?
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: shoptroll on August 14, 2016, 11:51:04 AM
So I did some digging around and answered a couple of my own questions:

1.  An IQ newsletter does exist.  I found I had received a couple emails announcing the R2R/OotT kickstarter but I've got nothing in my email that announces OotT was actually released.  If I wasn't a backer of OotT I likely wouldn't know about the game's existence.

2.  I did find the QfI hint/art book for sale on the website.  But it's not exactly intuitive how to find.  The only way to get to the page selling it is to either click the "Games" section link or from the 4th segment in the image carousel.  There's nothing on the QfI product page that indicates the book exists!

And since thoughts and electrons are somewhat cheap here's a couple additional thoughts/suggestions:

1.  I would absolutely love to buy a simple IQ T-shirt (ie. just the name on the front and the logo on the back) from you guys.  One of the podcasts I used to listen to did a shortlived T-shirt sale through Teespring ( as a way to raise some cash.  I don't know what their margins were but maybe this is something you could look into?  I would gladly pay $15-25 for a shirt like this.

2.  Add a "Store" page to the website which puts everything you've got for sale in a single location.  This is one of the things I like about the layout of Wadjet Eye's website.  Make sure to include links to other storefronts where the game can be bought as some people (like myself) prefer some stores to others.

3.  If the Stranger Things fangame ever becomes publicly available, put a message at the end thanking people for playing and to check out your other games if they want to support you.

4.  RPGamer ( did a series of retro-reviews of the QfG series last year.  So maybe fire a copy of QfI at them once 2.0 is done?

5.  I suggested bundles earlier, but what about an AGS themed Humble Bundle with Himalaya, Clifftop, Screen 7, Owl Cave, Harvester, Crystal Cave, Wadjet Eye, and other community members?

6.  Any chance of you guys attending local game festivals?  We've got the Boston Festival of Indie Games ( in my area and I know Phoenix has exhibited there in the past.

I think that's everything I've got.  I don't know how realistic any of my past suggestions have been and I have no qualms about any of them being silver bullets to solve things overnight.  But I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, some of them will help and maybe get the ball rolling towards getting the good word out about your games.

More importantly, is there anything we can do as fans to help you guys out?  I've been gifting copies of your games on Steam to people I know in hopes that maybe other people will find enjoyment and pass word or copies along to their friends.  I'm kinda running out of people to gift to so I'm feeling like I've done the best I can but it doesn't feel like it'll make a difference with only a couple copies here and there :(

EDIT:  Just found that JustAdventure ( did a review of QfI but nothing for OotT.  Give them a holler?
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Klytos on August 15, 2016, 01:07:59 AM
I'm not at my computer at the moment so I can't be more indepth, but a couple of quick notes. Thanks for all the suggestions, too! We really do appreciate it.

5. We (and every other developer) has no say in bundles by which I mean the company doing the bundle puts together a package and offers it to prospective companies who decide yay or nah on it. I will say that Humble is THE one to get into, but we've yet to be offered one from them - we do sell via their store though so we're certainly on their radar. Most bundles are worthless from a developer point of view. One that QFI was in gave us back 14c per copy. That's really just bullshit giving it away.

6. We have. We've done PAX East, GDC, Adventure Con and a couple of other smaller ones in Australia, the UK and America. Unfortunately, they're not cheap to attend, even the smaller ones.
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Chadly on August 15, 2016, 07:27:48 AM
@shoptroll (;u=772) @Klytos (;u=8)   Where exactly did you find the ability to purchase the QFI hintbook on IQ's website?  I can't find it anywhere on this site, as I very much would like a copy of it.  edit,  I found the link to buy the digital companion, however I want a physical copy if possible.

Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: shoptroll on August 15, 2016, 08:12:54 AM
Most bundles are worthless from a developer point of view. One that QFI was in gave us back 14c per copy. That's really just bullshit giving it away.

Yeah, I've heard that.  There was a good blog post by Jeff Vogel ( a few years ago about pricing games and bundles are pretty much what you do to try and rake whatever you can off the husk of your back catalog.  I didn't think it'd be reasonable for you guys but I was thinking maybe that'd be a way to get more exposure for your team and others like Clifftop who are in a similar situation.  But you're right it's not an appropriate strategy at this time.

6. We have. We've done PAX East, GDC, Adventure Con and a couple of other smaller ones in Australia, the UK and America. Unfortunately, they're not cheap to attend, even the smaller ones.

Yup, met you, Bt, and Broomie at PAX East this year (one of the highlights for me!).  I was actually surprised to see you guys had a booth since you're such a small outfit (hell, Wadjet Eye still hasn't done a booth!).  I don't know what the local one here charges, but I wasn't 100% sure if that was something you guys could really afford to do right now (which is why I tried to keep most of my suggestions to things that didn't really require spending money).

@Chadly (;u=31) : In case anyone else needs it here's the link for the book (  Doesn't look like there's a physical option yet :(
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Klytos on August 15, 2016, 08:33:01 AM
It's not even the cost of the booth so much as the cost to just get, and stay, there!
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Blackthorne on August 15, 2016, 10:52:07 AM
You can get a physical copy of the book from, actually - the link is here. (

The publishing house that printed the books for us has it on "print on demand" service through Amazon, and Barnes & I believe. (



Someone is trying to re-sell the book on Amazon for $91.00 - hah!
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Chadly on August 15, 2016, 11:55:33 AM
@Blackthorne (;u=2)
Thankyou mate.  However I was looking for a new copy of the guide, from the listings some say new others are used. I was hoping to buy directly from you folks, or the original publisher of the guide.  Strange it never occurred to me to search amazon or barnes and noble, as I thought such a limited release as this guide was.  Thanks again.
       Good to see you posting again.
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Kaldire on August 15, 2016, 02:40:37 PM
You can get a physical copy of the book from, actually - the link is here.

[url][/url] ([url][/url])

The publishing house that printed the books for us has it on "print on demand" service through Amazon, and Barnes & I believe.

[url][/url] ([url][/url])



Someone is trying to re-sell the book on Amazon for $91.00 - hah!

1. woah why would someone try to sell one for 91$?!

2. how on earth does amazon and b & n have the guides but ks people dont? im confuseded
(seems only the softback version) and Id love to get one but if my box is incoming no need!

still interesting.. "print on demand eh? they didnt print any hard covers?

ooo itching to get one. XD
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: shoptroll on August 15, 2016, 10:48:44 PM
It's not even the cost of the booth so much as the cost to just get, and stay, there!

Good point.  I don't travel much so that never even crossed my mind!
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Blackthorne on August 16, 2016, 08:09:13 AM
Yeah, the cost of plane tickets and hotel, food, etc. was more than the cost of the booth - the booth wasn't cheap, either.

But we had a really good time in Boston and met a lot of good folks, and I got to spend time with some of my best friends from around the globe.  I really liked being at the show; there's a large disconnect between how audiences on the net and audiences in person react to our games, etc.  If we had the kind of budget that would allow us to travel cross the country and world doing promotion like booths at expos... man.  That would be fun, and good exposure.

Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: BruceBrenneise on September 11, 2016, 03:11:42 AM
Well, for what it's worth, if you decided you wanted to do PAX West next year, you'd be welcome to camp out on the floor of my apartment here in Seattle for free. There's space enough for a few sleeping bags, I would say, pending agreement from my wife, of course. Not sure if that makes it worthwhile since the booth, plane tickets, etc, are still significant costs. Might be good to consider PAXDev as well, perhaps giving a talk on indie games/adventure games. Just throwing thoughts out there.

And you know, reading this discussion, some of the predicament of getting people to buy games is much like the problem of trying to get people to buy art. You can put it up online, but people are a lot more likely to buy when they meet you in person and feel that personal connection to the creator of the product.

Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Chadly on October 26, 2016, 04:35:06 PM
    I really think that for IQ to survive you all need a more aggressive marketing to the folks who remember playing these type of classic adventure games. Folks in there late 20's and 30's.  To a young teenager or someone in there 20's these games are like me playing an Atari, Intellivison, or Nes system.  PS4/Xbox1 systems are graphically amazing amd those systems stress First erson Shooters, which to me aren't all that fun anymore, as I like to think not randomly smash buttons hoping I don't run out of ammo.  Lets face it myself and the creators of Infamous Quests grew up in the golden era of gaming, as we are all about the same age demographic.  I just don't want to see a great thing as IQ die, but I understand the business end of things.  Some Kickstarters have raised 10 million dollars, Wow, and they aren't even finished yet, (Chris Roberts  Star Citizen for example).  Others have produced crap or nothing at all.  At Least IQ have produced 3 completed projects, with a fourth on the way.  Keep on trucking guys and gals, please. :)    Chadly.
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Chadly on October 26, 2016, 06:12:33 PM
Here is an idea, for the continuation and completion of Fortress of Fire and Roehm to Ruin.  Why not do another Kickstarter, as others like the Coles (Hero U) and Double Fine have done.  Your original backers would be game I would think, (I would) and others as well. If this is going to be the Swan Song for IQ and classic games in general why not give it a shot, if time and circumstances permit? :) Chadly. 
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Klytos on October 27, 2016, 08:44:19 AM
I completely agree that marketting is the key. it's something we discuss quite a lot. We do a lot of targeted marketting through social media and we've done advertising through various places such as dedicated adventure game sites. But the question is where and how? It's a genuine question, I'm not being rhetorical here. The type of people who played adventure games in the 80's and 90's is a wide demographic and not easy to lock down into something like "they all visit [THIS] website or read [THIS] magazine".

With completing Roehm to Ruin and Fortress of Fire, there is not a chance in the seven levels of hell we're doing a second kickstarter for the games we've already raised capital for. The whole idea makes my skin crawl and my sack itch. It feels to me like we're ripping people off. That all said, don't despair about these two games, Roehm to Ruin is in the final stages of production and should be out in the near future (that's months, not weeks). Fortress of Fire has a pathway forward and we're working on that right now, as well as finishing up a Special Edition of Quest for Infamy. Hopefully, there's enough money made through those three products to keep going and do other things, it just won't be at the same level of production speed as we have done up to now.
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Goatmeal on October 27, 2016, 04:38:15 PM
As the guy who single-handedly delayed Hero-U... (

...I'd hate for the same to happen to IQ if they tried taking a second bite of the old KS apple.   :-[

Ah, who am I kidding?  I'd sell my own children to help IQ.

Check back with me in about 9 months; I may have some inventory by then...
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Blackthorne on October 27, 2016, 06:25:30 PM
Haha, yeah, the thought of doing a Kickstarter for something we already kickstarted makes my skin crawl.  Besides, that model is pretty played out for people like us.  I'm STILL mailing out packages for physical rewards, which has honestly been the biggest pain in the patoot about this whole thing.  I'd either never do physical rewards again, or I'd budget to hire a fulfillment house to assemble and package everything.  This has been a bigger pain for me than actually making the games!

That aside, yeah - the market for our games is odd.  We really tried marketing hard, and I spent, well, a lot of money on it this year and got very little results.  Our Q3 earnings, well, were beyond abysmal, really, you don't even want to know.  But there ARE people out there who want to play these games - we had a big, positive reaction and great time at PAX East.  But it seems like the cyber world is different.... I just don't know.

I'm glad we have good fans like you guys who care, and have nurtured us through the bad times.  I'll admit, I've been dealing with a lot of depression related to IQ stuff, where I feel like a huge let down.  I'm getting better, and pushing on because that's what I do.  But I just really love what we do, the games we make, the people I make games with and chatting with you fellas.

Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: shoptroll on October 28, 2016, 09:52:30 PM
I think not doing a second KS is good idea.  I don't have a big problem with second rounds of funding (games are expensive to make and KS projects generally seem to lowball the expesnses) for projects but organizing and running a successful KS is a lot of work based on all the horror stories I've heard.  If the development pace is already slow because you have less resources to go around a KS is going to stall progress and momentum on the existing projects a lot.  Which it doesn't sound like is a luxury you have at this time.

That said, I'm still rooting for IQ.  Even if things slow down I'd love to see you all continuing to make the games you want to make and play.  Hopefully you and your audience will find each other :)

(And you guys have not been a let down at all.  Even though QfI didn't have the greatest production values in the industry no one can deny the sheer amount of ambition and passion that went into that project.  And King's Challenge was a solid achievement as well.  You guys successfully delievered two (soon-ish to be 4) crowdfunded projects in less time than it's taken many other teams.  That's awesome and something to be proud of.)
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Nowhere Girl on January 12, 2018, 03:59:39 PM
I have another idea: revamp the game's site a little! Do you know why I only bought the game today? Because from the screenshots included on the site I thought it would be boring - cute, yes, but monotonous... The screenshots included only represent a small part of the game. You could show that it's more diverse, for example add a screenshot from the dock, a screenshot from the swamp...
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Klytos on January 13, 2018, 06:11:28 AM
Was that our IQ website or the Steam page? Just curious...
Title: Re: Post-mortem thoughts
Post by: Nowhere Girl on January 14, 2018, 04:45:36 PM
I meant your website, or more precisely - its "subpage" for "Order of the Thorne".