Infamous Quests
Public Forums => IQ Chat => Topic started by: Bad2DaBone on November 09, 2014, 01:31:54 AM
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Any plans on a sequel? I enjoyed the game a lot so I'd love to be able to play the next game in the series.
....
Also, any more plans on new patches? I must have spent 70+ hours on the game's initial patch so I'm probably going to wait til all the patches are out before playing again.
Also, did they patch it so that Roehm can finally do something with that one worm scale?
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There's plans around for a sequel, it won't be our next game I can say that at this point. We'd want to see what the sales over a six month period at least were as to whether we could afford to make a second one.
The first (and hopefully only) patch for the game is nearing completion. I've smashed all the bugs, Steve's working on couple of additional scenes that are nearly done. Then we'll test it and make sure it's good to go.
The worm scale already has a function.
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What's the function?
I remember a couple of us players tested it like crazy then a dev said something like that it's bugged out and doesn't work and it'd be workable in the next patch.
I remember a dev saying something about "water" then saying "oh crap, it's bugged!"
Maybe you're supposed to be able to choke the Kraken to death by tossing it in his throat?
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The function is to annoy people who try to get it to do something useful.
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Geeze, you guys are so cryptic about puzzles....
Anyway, I hope QFI sells. Even if not, I hope you do another Kickstarter and make a sequel that's even more badass than the first. Just fix up the combat some (QFG 2 VGA on steroids essentially) and it should be a huge hit. :)
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(1) We're cryptic about puzzles because adventure games are about a story and puzzles are a major part of piecing the story together, so to give away the solution to a puzzle outright defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place. That's why we're cryptic and don't just say "Go to point A, click on object B and watch scene C."
(2) The story of the worm scale. Originally the necromancer quest was somewhat longer and involved getting more pieces for the Frankenstein monster. The worm scale was such a piece. The worm room was going to be a puzzle where giant worms came in and out of the holes in the ground and in a time-based way Roehm was going to be able to kill them by stabbing them at the exact right moment they appeared. We didn't get a chance to do all the animations for this as they would have been quite large and unique to this scene. The scale inventory item was left in the game by accident, I think at one point I was going to just have the player pick it up off one of the dead bodies (the part of the animation which was done, and is included in the game) but I decided against doing that because I tried to stay away from more "collect objects lying around" puzzles because we'd already done a lot of them with the Sorcerer quests. But I missed that I'd already scripted the inventory item part, which I should have removed.
Speaking to Steve today, I can confirm the new quests in the patch will make the scale useful.
(3) I don't think we'd do another Kickstarter. They're not successful for adventure games really at the moment, some good ones have significantly failed in recent months. That's not to say we wouldn't do a sequel, but it would be a more traditional funding model.
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Yep! My esteemed compadre, Klytos, has answered all the questions in a most excellent manner.
I would love to make a sequel, but as Klytos said - we wouldn't Kickstart it. It would also probably be smaller and more focused; QFI was the dream game we wanted to make, but it's really not financially feasible to do something so large.
Bt
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(2) The story of the worm scale. Originally the necromancer quest was somewhat longer and involved getting more pieces for the Frankenstein monster. The worm scale was such a piece. The worm room was going to be a puzzle where giant worms came in and out of the holes in the ground and in a time-based way Roehm was going to be able to kill them by stabbing them at the exact right moment they appeared.
Ha! Instead of "Whack-a-mole", it would have been "Whack-a-worm"! ;D
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why wouldnt you kickstart it ???
we all would gladly pitch the dough!
or is it that the ks last run didnt do well?
would u ks the next ahem.. game which we all seem to know what it is! ooo excitement!
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You have no idea what our next game is because we don't know 100% yet.
The qfi kick starter went really well, but a lot of subsequent projects which were just as, or more than, worthy have failed. In short, the kickstarted bubble has burst, I don't think we would be successful even asking for 50k now (which wouldn't be enough anyway). A lot of projects people backed when we did qfi still haven't delivered, that's a big reason people aren't backing. I think some of the old adventure game creators saw it as a cash cow and that didn't help. There's a lot of others too though.
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You have no idea what our next game is because we don't know 100% yet.
The qfi kick starter went really well, but a lot of subsequent projects which were just as, or more than, worthy have failed. In short, the kickstarted bubble has burst, I don't think we would be successful even asking for 50k now (which wouldn't be enough anyway). A lot of projects people backed when we did qfi still haven't delivered, that's a big reason people aren't backing. I think some of the old adventure game creators saw it as a cash cow and that didn't help. There's a lot of others too though.
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aww..
as for the next game well if you beat QFI .. ahem well I wont spoil that, and yea I know its an unknown variable I didnt want to seem like I knew what was coming just a few guesses that I wont post here. :P
you know what I mean though!
as for KS the bubble didnt burrrstt :P I think you would be successful at getting 100K+ if so desired,
just need word of mouth, as Ive missed so many KS's that I just DIDNT know about, even QFI.
anyway looking forward to helping in anyway shape or form to get your teams creative awesomeness to more games even if its in mixes of studios
corrigan for example is a busy busy beee
im sure you all are for the most part!
Just hope we as fans helped enough to make you feel qfi was a success not a failure or just a neutral zone
da neutral zonneeee like in star trek.. aww
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Sorry but I disagree about Kickstarter. A short list of recent worthy adventure games that have failed at KS funding.
* The Black Glove - less than 50%
* One Final Breath - barely at 10%
* The Case of Charles Dexter Ward - less than 50%
* Kaptain Brawe 2 - about half their funding
* The interactive adventures of Dog Mendonca and Pizzaboy barely made their $30k.
* Her Majesties Spiffing COULD make it, I have my doubts, although the last few days of a KS usually give a boost so it may make it.
Plus the Jim Walls one was a failure, as well as David Crane's one. People were also disillusioned by some of the big name projects not delivering. Double Fine split a million dollar KS game into two parts. Still waiting on the other big dollar ones like SpaceVenture and Hero-U. Both will be fantastic I think but we're talking two years on from the Kickstarters now and they raised a lot of money.
I think there's a lot of apprehension about backing adventures on KS at the moment.
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any clue on the KS downside? maybe just to many out there and not enough funds in the fans to sport funding for all?
dexter ward didnt make the limit?! noooooooooooooo
ahh nuts..
I didnt know this ty klytos for the KS update, still dont give up on it, have ye talked to serena about this?
ahem I mean KSV? about whats up or what not, maybe ill chat her and see what up lately
(the one thats in your bar in QFI is who im talkin about) :P
so do you mean the next game will be free ware or .. like funded in other means ?
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Yeah, I was bummed about Charles Dexter too, the guy behind that is a good bloke and a friend and I think it would have truly been a brilliant game. As for KS in general, I think it will bounce back but at the moment there's the afterglow of a lot of people throwing a lot of money at something new and shiny and then realising what they've done. Plus I think a few of the high profile games have been underwhelming, plus as I said, a few of the big names from the golden days haven't delivered yet.
God no our next game won't be freeware. Freeware and too-cheap games (plus in-purchase apps) are killing the industry (not just adventure games, the whole gaming industry.) That's not a slight against the games themselves some of which are brilliant, but since the Apple store was created with 99c games, look at what's happened to the whole gaming industry. Your big games still sell, GTA and all that, and your free games move of course (they're free!) but the middle brackets between $15 and $30? Dead. People are now expecting games to be free or practically free and that model is simply not sustainable. People can't work for nothing.
It's about value, and the value simply based on inputs (artwork, time, music, promotion etc) for a game like QFI is easily more than the $20 we retail at but people aren't willing to fork out $20 for a game. I mean, this is the price of 2 Big Mac meals, it's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. I spend more than that on Pepsi a fortnight. There was a shitstorm of complaint about J.U.L.I.A at $20 recently too, and that's crazy saying that's not worth $20, it's fucking amazing.
There's my observations on the industry of late.
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It's about value, and the value simply based on inputs (artwork, time, music, promotion etc) for a game like QFI is easily more than the $20 we retail at but people aren't willing to fork out $20 for a game. I mean, this is the price of 2 Big Mac meals, it's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. I spend more than that on Pepsi a fortnight. There was a shitstorm of complaint about J.U.L.I.A at $20 recently too, and that's crazy saying that's not worth $20, it's fucking amazing.
1. so how would the next game be made? pos backing? or just retail box or digi only with no awesome swag!?
2. hell what? julia ROCKS, id have paid 40 for that game, sure beats the new borderlands
just amazing that game!
3. Well I hope for the best, and support yall just would be nice to get non digi stuff, I dislike the pure digi era.
example is the GOLD RUSH revamp, which my CE wood box is comin soon + a bonus TEE that kinda looks like the old sierra kq one only its Jerrod!
whoop whoop
sad I missed out on the qfi shirt but shrug hoodie incoming whenever the backerkits and ks stuff comes in.
idk thats so true about people wanting 1-4$ games or free
Personally I like odd stuff even the 20 min game JOURNAL for 6$ it was before a sale, I loved the idea
not much to it... but really great
Id just hate to see this awesome scene die out into the dl this digi game only
even gamestop went to digi dls mainly on most pc games, grrr
I want real stuff I can hold and smell and touch. I think most of your crew do also share that, as you love most of the same games that came with rich swag!
whoop
anyway ty for that update and, yea sad world but great era..
Do you think xbox dorks made this impact of free to low cost games? since thats kinda when it all started making small games on xbox etc. Now its mobile games on pc and most are just total poo
COLLIDER for example shouldnt have been released on any platform just the mobile yet there it is on steam.. pfftt
EDIT: 20$ bucks in this day in age is nothing, again thats why I backed the game(better late than never)
its WORTH 100$ to me as a retail game imo, and 50$ as a digi only
:)
thats what I think its worth 100$ !!
it went on sale and not many people seemed to get it on steam or.. the other sale site(forgot the name)
whats WRONG with peopppleee!
their loss :( but man if its impacting other great games on KS or your future CURSES
AND btw the SHROUD of avatar made like almost 2 million! how is that one doing so well?
still going tooo!
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Look this is just my observations and conclusions. I could be completely wrong. Xbox and ps network games probably make an impact in the same way.
We sold really well on the gog sale recently, but at half price you've gotta sell twice the copies to get the same amount. I don't think the game is worth $100 but thanks! The next game I think will be made on private funding, as in Steve and my money, with the hope we make it back. Traditional funding. Physical rewards are freaking cool but from a production point of view a royal pain in the ass. I love em though.
As for the gold rush remake, I won't get into that because ... wow.
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as for the gold rush
is it bad?
ive not played the revamp..
just a friend in germany is getting me the box and a shirt. I got a few thumbs up in another thread when mentioning it.
Is it terrible? I know its short but.. terrible?
ooo now Im kinda freaking out!
dont want my mate to go through the trouble of mailing it. I mean I could get the game on steam or illegally but i was awaiting the real swag.
Can I ask what the ... wow means? just terrible im assuming?
ack!
as for physical copies Id hope there would at least be a gamebox!
and out of pocket! woah!
lemme know about gold rush, I might put a .. never mind to my mate on that one.. though its never meant to be a huge game nor a real great improvement, just a way to make gold rush 2 which oddly is in the works now they own the real IP for it.
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Read the forums on steam. I haven't bought the game myself.
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oh ive read the forums
on the original and revamp
both are negative(the revamp was 90% refund this and that due to idiots thinking the game was 5$ when it was just mislisted by valve as saying game+dlc =5$ when its game =30$ then+5 to get the SE dlc
other than that, there arent many negative comments and the reviews are just silly :P
not sure if thats what you meant about reading the forums, im shocked the devs upgraded the 5$ buyers to full SE status, thats not funny... esp for them. Another reason to dislike steam, recently I was refunded for FABLE ANNI on pc as it mislead people to saying it didnt need a controller. the game does..)
lemme know if the dlc 5$ thing is what u meant.. ive not seen much else but AWESOME but poor controls! or this is lame (from the kids who never played the old one)
while games like crappy watchdogs and ac3 and 4 and now unity and new borderlands get rave reviews and imo SUCK BALLLS
:P
anyway, not sure what people are expecting, its a short game, always was.
idk
Sorry for asking for that opinion, might put ya in a bad position.
Still, I own 4 different versions of the original gold rush not including the new release of the old one from sunlight and not including the wooden box new revamp
shrug
but yea i never go by metacritic nor steam reviews, unless I trust the reviewers. So far no one i know reviewed the game (at least not that im aware of)
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Just to note, we've never got funding from PoS - they just distributed our game on Steam and did some promotion for us. All the funding for the game we raised on Kickstarter and came from our own pockets.
Bt
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I don't think 20 bucks is too much for a game. Hell KQ3 and SQ remakes were free and I'd would have paid for them! Seriously i used to pay 50 bucks for a sierra game 20 years ago, and once paid 80 for final fantasy 3 for snes. It costs money to make games, so supply and demand. It's basic economics 101. The Net is too full of people who want shit for free or like 5 bucks. It is my sincere hope the QFI sells well enough to continue funding IQ's and a possible sequel. Chadly :)
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A little perspective would be helpful here, but alas, for most people, the universe began the day they were born...
As an old dinosaur, I can remember paying $30-$45 for Intellivision cartridges in the early 1980s. That's the equivalent of paying $70-$105 in 2013 -- and while they were extremely enjoyable, compare that with the complexity of programming and execution of today's modern games at a lower "price."
And even though PC computer game prices were $40-$70 in the 1990s, that "price" has essentially remained the same 20 years later for the "big-name" games: $40-$70 in 1995 is the same as paying $60-$105 in 2013, where games are a better value today.
So while gaming has gotten more economically advantageous for the consumer, they lack the historical perspective to appreciate it. While that's part of the problem, there is plenty of blame for freeware games, along with the piracy of video games, music and movies; where there is no cost, there is no value.
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RIGHT!
I remember mario snes or nes games being 69.99 RETAIL
sierra games some.. were 69.99 also!
wtfff are kids complaining about !!!!
its why I dont get it. Maybe im just not of that generation. My daughter is but even she LOVED QFI
she peed until she died, laughed and showed her friends,
(she prefers rogue path fyi)
she is in love with rohem too :)
side note, I could pirate games, but how does that help get more great games out?
I mean really!
now music, sure I can understand since most money there is made on tours not album sales as radiohead even said in contrast to metallica nuttin up on napster, radiohead gave and still does give all albums free via torrent, saying if you like it buy it or come to a show , get a shirt and have some fun
its worked for them :P
but man, yea... I used to pirate everything, now the most I do is rare rare stuff I own that Im to scared to use, which I find no harm in, though it still doesnt make it legit (tho most companies are defunct the ips are still owned) some arent
shrug
hence why I got QFI on steam gog and backerkit!
prolly why most of us here did, could we have torrented your game? yep
did we..
hellls nooooooooo
just hope this really doest effect your future
as for PoS im sorry they dont help out esp since steam cards and such % goes to them, it should go towards backing your next project
do they even offer any support other than tweets or such?
just curious as most publishers help back games, not all but like tex murphy (though the dev was chris jones ATLUS put up loads of cash and TESTERS to help him and his crew!)
id think pos would do that for ya..
shrug
sorry if thats tooo personal no need to answer, just note that tex murphy tesla effect ROCKS, and was originally UNREAL engine, changed to unity and backed and published by atlus! one of the best JRPG game publishers evaaaaa imo
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I'd like to touch the piracy topic just a little bit.
I'm perfectly fine with the model of Quest for Infamy. You get to play a demo and then decide whether you want to buy it or not.
However, this type of a structure is very rare these days, now instead of demos we get "Preorder now for 5% discount and a hat!", but you won't get to TRY OUT the game itself. That's why, mainly with big costly titles, if I'm not too certain about the game, I prefer to pirate it first and see if I like it. If I do, then I'll actually buy it too.
Say what you will, but I'm not the person who can afford to spend 40-60 bucks here and there all the time as if it were pennies, so I'm glad that as a PC gamer, I have the option to try a potentially interesting game if I'm not given the chance.
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wish they had that for watchdogs, (the demo was NOT how it was lauched ubi took all the good visuals out to water it down so consoles could run it, and then somehow forgot to revamp it back for pc standards)
huge fits raged over that games demo at E3 vs the actual gameplay and no demo existed for users
same with new borderlands PS pos more like, no demo, nothing, just terrible to even make it from gearbox aussie land where things are .. PG rated or they are banned (of course saying that now.. after ive been informed here that things are changing a bit in australia but still, the game is TERRIBLE)
ubi lost me for life, deepsilver, ubi, blizzard,bethesda, lionhead, gearbox all never will get a cent from me again
and on the QFI note, the demo well
so say you backed the game in KS, youd have to be STILL WAITING to play it...
hence why I got the game on gog AND steam, so I could play sooner
did I torrent the sob noper, triple buy!
I go to many cons and 90% (yes this % is shot out my rear) of the games demo'ed are NOTHING LIKE the end result at launch
shadows of mordor, glad I didnt get that, pos, demo and vids made it look fantastic, even with HD my brothers top of the line rig the game looked like just a ps3 and not much more (not that ps3 is bad) just that the game was viewed as HD gfx and looked amazing on the demo and commercials
grrr waves fists
as for watchdogs that pile of dung I DID pay for, and the dlc. FUN part about the preorder of WD is that the DLC was 3/4ths the PREORDER content. SO I paid out the rear for just 1 extra mission that lasted 5-10 minutes! and paid 29.99 for that one mission as the rest came with the preorder
also the e3 demo crew released their MOD to make the game look like it was supposed to and what did ubi do? claimed it would ruin rigs and crash the game (and it only made it run better and look fantastic)
they just didnt want to admit they watered it down for consoles and didnt want pc users getting a graphics upper hand and then console buyers flipping out when they compare screens and the console looked like crap vs pc sooo they just left it looking likes poop
I finally did install the mod, it ran WAY BETTER and looked amazing!
still a crap overpriced game but yea
I dont trust big companies anymore.. im an indie lova!
bethesda I WAS A HUGE fan of, until oblivion, then they lost me, same with fallout (not a terrible game but) all essence of the old fallout was GONE.. just poof into a skyrim type fps
all dung dung
:)
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That's one of the reasons we did a demo DosBox, I think it removes the reason of "I'm not sure if I'll like it" from the piracy equation.
I think there's a lot of reasons for piracy, and the only one I think could be considered legitimate is if something is simply not available anymore - although that really only counts for old games. I'm sorry if this offends but "I'm not sure I'll like it" isn't a reason to pirate at game. The other day I walked into a book shop and saw a new novel that looked alright, the blurb on the back seemed to indicate a good story and I recognised the author as someone I’ve read before and enjoyed. Still, I wasn’t sure it would be good so I took it and told the guy behind the counter that I’d come back and pay for it if I liked it. He proceeded to jump the counter and repeatedly punch me in the face until I gave the book back.
Plus, you may buy the game if you like it, but you'll be in the minority with adventure games. As they're a story driven game, if you've finished it already why would you buy it?
I'm sorry, but the logic is flawed in that it only seems to be an acceptable excuse for digital products.
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Piracy=theft=no money to the hardworking folks that made the game. With that said sure as a younger Chadly i traded games with friends, as in the 80's and 90's it was easy to do with no copy protection. I could list numerous sites now that have abandoned ware on them. Too chancy for me. I think we all have done it at one time at another. Kind of like masterbation, is it right or wrong? That question is up to one's personal beliefs. As an adult I don't steal or pirate games, i just rent them from legitamate places such as GameFly before i purchase. Demo's are the way to go as you guys proved at least to me! :) Chadly
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yep totally
wait did that really happen with the book or are you giving a harsh comparison ?
if that happened wtf!
as for piracy well, again not all torrents or dls are pirating, some are freeware or free 100% and no i dont mean games, some apps , linux etc,
As for what I pirate its like da kyltos said if i have a rare boxed game, and I dont want to use it, or its sealed, ill get a torrent of it or ftp irc it. Again I used to be 2nd hand to TEAMRPG whos goal was to keep the old alive, our goal wasnt to pirate but to keep dead games alive that werent sold or were not working. most of the time we used our original copies, making great images (none needed cracks or anything)
and none of the games were owned IP wise by anyone hence freeware
id never dl a game just to PLAY it as a demo!
ever.. and thats saying lots
as for music though, so much is rare and unheard of, where soulseek has this stuff like
Franki doll and the broken toys disbanded and let everyone just spit out their music any way they could
same with radiohead but they didnt disband, and even tenacious d allowed a few vids of the last tour to be made into a fan dvd 100% not legal until tom aka jack black came on and said let it be soooooooooo!
then it was legit :P
but now adays most of those TEAMRPG games, are now on GOG and ips are now back in action or you guys wouldnt need to rename games to other things, etc
so its not the same as it once was.
I tend to stay away from torrents again unless its ancient and no one owns it. OR I own the real game but cant or dont want to use it (floppy drives dont exist) so one must emulate !
oh and ive never paid for windows ever, but thats thanks to intel giving me free copies up until windows 8
which I dont own thankfully
XD
I still rock my ps2 emulator and all games I just stick in my dvd (real games) so that I can play them!
I dont find that illegal but it.. kinda is :P
shrug again
keep the dead alive i say
like one game from the nancy drew crew that started it all, is still no where to be found
some times on ebay but even then rarely. I once emailed HER and asked if it was ok to host the game
they said YES for sure please keep it alive!
this game below is the one i mean, it was 6 cds with 2 cds for 2 extra chars and another cd for a soundtrack! very rare. Of course now that nancy drew games are in full effect I doubt they would say SURE host that!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_%26_Co
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No it's an analogy.
As for torrents, yeah sure they not ALL pirated stuff. But come on, if it's legit it's very very very rare.
Also I understand people might not agree with me about piracy either. I was a horrible thief until I saw the other side of it after the QFI release. Honestly it didn't change my mind because I always knew on some level it was wrong but it made me think about it. Enlightened self interest.
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How can anything that feels so right be wrong?
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@Klytos (http://www.infamous-quests.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8) Well, I didn't really mean adventure games because most if not all of them tend to be cheaper. I usually buy my games, but then there are those big triple-A titles that barely lower their price, so that's when me sealegs become active and I plunder the booty forcefully.
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al lowe would be proud of the way you phrased that lololol
ty for the giggle and here here!
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I personally don't like the idea of pirating for multiple reasons. There is the whole stealing thing, but I also don't want to get malware on my PC. That irritates me more than bad AAA titles selling for way too much money.
Instead I just never pay full price for anything. For example, the Halo Master Chief Collection just released on Tuesday for $60. Target had a sale buy 2 get 1 free on all video games. I went in to target, bought 3 copies of Halo, sold 2 on Ebay for about $55 each and I got my game for about $20 after taxes.
I will also wait for price to drop. If you wait 6 months, everything eventually goes on sale. And during that time, I read reviews. watch some game play on youtube to see if it is something that I would enjoy. If it isn't, I don't buy it. If it is, I do.
We now have so many ways to "check out a game" before we commit to buying it. Companies try to prevent this by offering exclusive DLC for pre orders, etc. If you are someone who has to have the exclusive content, then fine, pay full price and get disappointed regularly. To me it isn't worth it.
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Well that's the other issue with pirating games now. Malware. Not even viruses, just horrible horrible malware.
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The first (and hopefully only) patch for the game is nearing completion. I've smashed all the bugs, Steve's working on couple of additional scenes that are nearly done. Then we'll test it and make sure it's good to go.
For the new areas:
• Are they class-specific?
• Are they accessible for all three classes (class-independent)?
• Is it a mix of the two?
Inquiring minds want to know. ;)
Thanks!
P.S. Thank you for the recent sneak peak of a new Tower Bridge scene, as found on the IQ Twitter feed & Facebook page. Can't wait for Version 1.1!
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They are class specific; but one can be accessed by all three classes, and that being the bridge tower interior. The other two can only be reached by their specific class.
Bt
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They are class specific; but one can be accessed by all three classes, and that being the bridge tower interior. The other two can only be reached by their specific class.
Bt
OK...
?!?!? - Wait a minute:
There are two other new areas/rooms, but there are three classes. Does one class NOT get a new area (aside from the Tower Bridge)?
Or are there 3 different ways for you to ENTER each of these two new areas/rooms?
Or am I missing something (which is entirely possible...).
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Three new rooms.
Two accessible only by specific class.
One all three can get to, but only one class can get something from it.
Bt
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One all three can get to, but only one class can get something from it.
I'm guessing that's because there is no new "special" room for the 3rd class?
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@chucklas (http://www.infamous-quests.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7) really good point mate
Its why I also say, dont preorder anything on the top lines until they all go down in price
and again also good point of the malware and VERY awesome finally a forum knows the diff between malware and virii :P usually its adware or bloatware or malware in them but rarely virus infection these days
still it happens
@blackthorne
oooooooo
cant friggen wait INSERT AWESOME REPLAY FACTOR HERE ----> whoop whoop!
"open open open open"
old sears commercial I think :)
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To try and get back to the topic of funding...
I agree that the mid-market games are in a barren wasteland in terms of funding. AAA titles that get tens of millions of dollars in marketing do well since... well, since they spend tens of millions of dollars marketing it. And free/MTX/$1 games do well, since free things or games that cost less than a Coke are super easy to buy into.
Games that don't have the multi-million dollar budgets but then also have a more niche audience are the areas where finding money is hard. I'm not sure of the exact psychology behind it, but it seems that around $10 and up, people really start engaging in risk avoidance behaviors when buying video games (but will gladly pay $50 for a steak dinner they eat in thirty minutes - go figure).
In terms of Kickstarter, I think the model CAN work really well. If people are engaged and involved, many projects can meet their goals. However, there are three fundamental flaws.
1) Awareness. This is hard, as people can't give money to your game in a 30-45 day time frame if they don't know about it. I'm sure there are many delightful KickStarter adventure games that never even hit my radar and I'm their target demographic - someone who loves the old Sierra heyday titles, specifically the QFG series and who would rather give more money to an indie developer than a publisher monolith. Yet I didn't pledge to them simply because I didn't know they even existed. What helps here is having some big names attached to the project (like Chris Avellone with Pillars of Eternity, or the Coles for the new Quest for Glory game) or having a very easily digested concept (such as a Quest for Glory game where you can be a scoundrel). Anything more esoteric is going to need to engage some more non-traditional means of drumming up attention or look elsewhere for money.
2) Stretch goals. This may seem odd, but it's something I feel is a real problem with Kickstarter. You've done a great rollout, you are making money, the ability to realize your vision is in sight... and suddenly you now have MORE money than you know what to do with! Great problem, right? Except now you have to do more. People expect every cent raised should be used to make the game bigger and badder. I think a much better model would be "X amount of days to reach $Y goal, whichever comes first." Not to mention the extra headaches and cost involved wih extras like "handmade Egyptian cotton mousepads" or "six autographed tea kettles" that are bundled with many KS games. No extra projects, no raising of the bar... it's nice that everyone wants to help make the game better, but it leads to scope creep and the next problem...
3) Cannibalizing sales. Kickstarter turns possible customers into a backer. Which is great - it helps people who want to make a certain game find the money to do so for the very people who want to play it. The problem is that once the release occurs and all the backers get their game and all the random swag associated with it... you've burned through a large chunk of the very people who would want to play it. Which means developers have a (rather slim) paycheck during development, then empty pockets when it's all said and done. Now, I know there are lots of sales after the game is released (well, hopefully) and that the developers aren't destitute after all their efforts (again... hopefully!), but the problem still remains. How much is left of the consumer base when the backers don't need to buy their copies and the vast majority of interaction on the behalf of the developers has been with those same backers? There's not as much buzz generated come release day amongst people who didn't already pay for the game.
This has led me to adopt the following practices as a Kickstarter consumer. I never back something at a higher dollar value that involves a physical extra (although items like in-game items, such as name in the credits or throwaway reference on a tombstone) are safe territory. I never back a project until its last few days. And I never back a project that is on pace to exceed their goal (unless it is the last day and they look like they might need the push), let alone one that is pursuing stretch goals.
If I see a game I like that is going to make it without my help, I follow the release on Kickstarter and then buy it, full price, when it is finally released. I did that with QFI, Wasteland 2 and Pillars of Eternity (I did back the new QFG and Banner Saga, though). I think that is a much more sustainable method of funding, instead of adding 5 new side quests for the extra $50K you raised, you instead get those would-be backers on the hook for new copies when the game comes out, giving you an actual profit and money to fund the next game.
In an unrelated note, I'd love to see a philanthropic group for video game development, where development dollars could be awarded out for those groups trying to make something more than iTunes shovelware but who don't have huge corporate backers to subsidize their costs. It would help bridge the gap between "working for donations/F2P premium models" and AAA gaming, which just seem to be rehashing first person shooter or action games annually with shinier and shiner graphics.
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Man.... awesome first post! Where have YOU been lurking?
I guess, for me, personally - crowdfunding is stressful. Running it, and maintaining - it wears on you. It does, for sure. There are some great pros to it, but at times I feel I'd rather answer to one person instead of hundreds that demand how you make your game. That's probably just me being crabby.
One of the fun things about KS was the rewards, but I think so many of us understimated them, and they will clean you the HELL out! A corporation with a fund JUST for producing stuff has money to cover the production runs of things - and shipping, etc. A small group will pay out the ass for that stuff.
Bt
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very wicked first post
and yep
Im sad i missed the swag for the original kickstarter,
and after making packs for TTGs which took FOREVER, idk about ever doing that again (its also why TTG doesnt sell swag anymore when they used to have some of the best)
just putting a piece of paper, a card, a sticker, a pin .. sealing it, stampin it with a date s&m season 1 pack stamp x 1000000000000000000000 (yes that number was out my bum
lol just ahhhhhh
still are that many people hassling ya over the ks?
I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!!
ahem i mean my KS box! lol
PS ALL KS should do backerkits afterwards or still allow for KS donations and merch after goal is reached! provided the merch hasnt been sent out
that alone would help many many people
shroud made so much just after it even met its quota, and still is making upwards what now 2+ million bucks daaamn really..
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Man.... awesome first post! Where have YOU been lurking?
I guess, for me, personally - crowdfunding is stressful. Running it, and maintaining - it wears on you. It does, for sure. There are some great pros to it, but at times I feel I'd rather answer to one person instead of hundreds that demand how you make your game. That's probably just me being crabby.
One of the fun things about KS was the rewards, but I think so many of us understimated them, and they will clean you the HELL out! A corporation with a fund JUST for producing stuff has money to cover the production runs of things - and shipping, etc. A small group will pay out the ass for that stuff.
Bt
Heh. I'm a Chatty Cathy once you get me going, what can I say.
I can only imagine how stressful it must be to handle the Kickstarter. Updates, demos, multiple forms of payment, different packages/commitments... you wind up having the full plate of marketing duties usually reserved right before a game's released spread out over the entire game's development!
It honestly makes me wonder if there would be any business opportunity for there being a Kickstarter marketing group - someone who will organize all the aspects of the Kickstarer process, working closely with the team to get updates, art, physical goodies, etc., as well as generating marketing buzz and handling all the payment issues so that the Dev team can focus solely on actually developing the game. Doing that for multiple KS projects could keep costs relatively low rather than having the team have a dedicated FT employee doing that for themselves.
Just a thought.
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You mean not like KSV but something else? and keep chatting, your posts make mine look like poop! I mean yours are perfect, syntax, punctuation etc. easy to read and follow cheers on ya mate, PS : I can post this way buuut, I type off my head out of though aka no buffer lol
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Actually, a lot of KS's DO use PR firms that run them for people. It's become quite the business itself. Most of the larger campaigns you've seen were run by hired pro PR people. Me? I stayed up and almost didn't sleep for a month during our first Kickstarter. Our second was a much smaller project, and was actually much easier to run. But our first Kickstarter? We put 5 months of work into the pre-production - back in 2012, it was still a new thing. We took our time; the team worked on the demo like bats out of hell - I did a lot of research, looking at other campaigns, etc. In the end - I made sure I was on there a lot, answering all the questions that came in and engaging backers and posters. Very nerve-racking, but rewarding is so many ways - I met a lot of cool people that way. The most eager backers and our bigger pledgers became friends. They were the most encouraging during the whole project, and afterwards. I've formed lasting friendships with many. But doing it yourself is crazy. I couldn't even imagine running a campaign the size of, like, Torment or Wastelands 2. Or friggin Star Citizen! Bt PS: Broomie - I don't know what kind of update happened, but this new text editor does not let me format text at all - I had paragraph breaks and crap in here.... ALLL GONE.
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Yikes! That sounds like a huge mess. I guess it makes sense that there would be PR firms working the KS front... man, there goes my million dollar idea! :)
Makes you wish there was truly a way to make the claim of "video games as an art form" and get federal grant money or something. The artwork in QFI is just absolutely stunning without needing to be bleeding next-gen expensive. And the story has smart, sharp writing and encourages people to think in order to solve puzzles and piece together the mystery of the story. It makes me say...
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/04/df97ad5b51ebb56c3639410a1ad1cb6c.jpg)
For what it's worth, I'm using the Tapatalk mobile phone app and am able to post and type great! I appreciate you all supporting that function - I do most of my web surfing on my phone in between work and your website's integration with the app is stellar.
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I learned to stay away from FEDERAL anything! Still paying my college loan off! Man they can find you even if you move to Thailand ! And yea like I was saying I knew most had PR people, I know/knew a few. If not the devs themselves doing it. Sad to see KS going the way it is, I am still confused how some games have such a high success rate and some fail totally. Case and point is the Dexter Ward I helped back that failed vs the Shroud (Ultima) game, that made millions Also you have games like Tex Murphy Telsa effect which Chris mainly put his own money in. Then KS. Then ATLUS helped test and backed a HUGE portion of the money! ATLUS!!! would be nice to have a publisher as such on the side of anyone in cases as those. BTW nice pic! haahha you rock man where have you been hiding for real! Either way! Welcome and WELCOME! hehe Kal-
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The artwork in QFI is just absolutely stunning without needing to be bleeding next-gen expensive.
QFT. ;)
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Here here! So true btw I havent seen anyone use QFT in a very long time lambo!