Episodic King's Quest The Odd Gentlemen.

[Baggins]

On a side note, KQ1 and to a lesser extent KQ2 and KQ3 (and possibly KQ4, more likely with KQ4 AGI) were very context sensitive in as much that you generally had to walk up to something before the game would let you interact with it. Often there would be completely different interaction depending on if you were far away from the object or close to it. They also were not point and click games. But you had to move around with arrow keys or a joystick. Typing did allow for a bit more interactivity though, and some extra 'action' commands allowed in the parser would sometimes give you funny messages, or at least tell you that your action ultimately failed.

The new game has sort of merged the 'context sensitive' positioning style gameplay of the first game (unfortunately without the parser to try 'extra' actions and things, that parser allowed), with the simplified actions of the later point and click style games. Yes, in someways that makes it closer to Grim Fandango or Monkey Island 4.

[Lambonius]

I'm just so blinded by my hatred of modern Telltale-style adventure games that I am seeing them in every shadow.

The new game has sort of merged the 'context sensitive' positioning style gameplay of the first game (unfortunately without the parser to try 'extra' actions and things, that parser allowed), with the simplified actions of the later point and click style games.

Except that there seems to be only one pre-selected interaction that you can take for any given item in the world, thus removing the element of player choice that is a crucial part of making adventure games feel like "thinking man's" games.  Without that crucial element of trial and error, it's just another action-adventure game.

[Blackthorne]

I saw some gameplay today.  It's context sensitive.  When you come upon something that can be interacted with, the icons pop up and you select them.  I can see where they wanted to pay homage to the past, using KQV's style icons, but it has the common modern gameplay mechanic in adventure games of context sensitive interactions.


Bt

[Baggins]

Except that there seems to be only one pre-selected interaction that you can take for any given item in the world, thus removing the element of player choice that is a crucial part of making adventure games feel like "thinking man's" games.  Without that crucial element of trial and error, it's just another action-adventure game.

When KQ7 and KQ8 switched to the one 'context sensitive' "smart" icon for everything concept, they created a 'pre-selected' interaction, removing the more choices previous games had.

The parser of the earliest games allowed for the most interactions. KQ5's system consolidated options even further. Then KQ7 did away with options, and  limited the number of things you could actually interact with in the world. Same with KQ8.

In that way the new one is just as 'limited' as the last couple of King's Quests.

Technically in the new game we see 'two actions' on any given object in the game world, the pre-chosen action, and the inventory (to be able to choose items picked up in the world). Presumably there will be times though when more than two icons could be shown on the screen if there is more than one action available. We also haven't been shown how the item-combining system will work (though they discuss that's something the game allows for as well).

As mentioned previous adventure games that were largely 'context based' include Grim Fandango, and Monkey Island 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wv2g6djo2w

Perhaps its more of a 'consolizing' the controls of adventure gaming?

[Baggins]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure/xBythiEIqzY%5B1-25%5D

Wow,  interesting discussion from 1998 or so (before the release of KQ8)

Even back then there were people who disliked Roberta's games, and were extremely jaded.

Found this comment particularly interesting:

Speaking as an experienced adventure writer myself (text adventures on
the Spectrum, published under the FSF Adventures banner), I must say a
few words.
There is no such thing as an "original" puzzle in any adventure game, be
it text or graphic. Any puzzle has appeared in some form or another in
virtually every adventure game ever released. The get-key-with-nail-and-
newspaper puzzle is just a variation of the classic how-to-open-a-
locked-door puzzle. There are actually very few "basic" puzzles any
adventure author can do variations on.

[Baggins]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure/Roberta$20Williams/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure/OH_FxjekfSE/b5qAZMabaxcJ

Heh go back earlier to a discussion from 1995:

This comment is a gem:

house...@csusys.ctstateu.edu
  No one complains about KQ 1-4 because they really *ARE* great games. 
The games did start getting lame after the parser interface was removed.  Now,
is that because of the icon interface, or did the games just get lame?? 
 I think it's because of the ocon interface.  A lot of the challenge in the
earlier games was how do I use the objects.  In the newer games it's 'WHERE'
do I use to objects. 

[Lambonius]

Except that there seems to be only one pre-selected interaction that you can take for any given item in the world, thus removing the element of player choice that is a crucial part of making adventure games feel like "thinking man's" games.  Without that crucial element of trial and error, it's just another action-adventure game.

When KQ7 and KQ8 switched to the one 'context sensitive' "smart" icon for everything concept, they created a 'pre-selected' interaction, removing the more choices previous games had.

Yes, and KQ7 is a terrible adventure game.  Certainly the worst of the pre-KQ8 King's Quest games.  And it's terrible for exactly that reason (along with the very dubious decision to move the series into an art direction and animation style that the technology wasn't yet ready for.)  The fact that the Odd Gentlemen are INTENTIONALLY aping KQ7 is proof enough that these people don't "get" what makes King's Quest such a beloved series of games (the terrible KQ7 aside.)

[Kaldire]

but its so pretty!
cool world style

[rugged]

Anyone heard what pricing will be?

[Kaldire]

noper mate to early
esp if they make some odd CE which they might, for console or something

idk
my guess? 49.99 pc, 59.99 new consoles (as thats the avg price of new games these days)
but who knows? idk
witcher 3 was 179.99 CE  59.99 standard for pc which is high for a pc port but ..
ill pray for a CE of KQOG, but id love to see playable demos first vs the demos i did see, nothing matches those early demos  again looked more like trine than what im seeing now

whoop cant wait, loads to look forward to

[Klytos]

I'd assume about $20 per part.

[Baggins]

"The fact that the Odd Gentlemen are INTENTIONALLY aping KQ7 is proof enough that these people don't "get" what makes King's Quest such a beloved series of games (the terrible KQ7 aside.)"

Actually I think the first game is aping King's Quest 1 (perhaps in particular the original King's Quest for pcJR's concept art), as far as the 'open world', play as graham... Cartoony Graham... Graham's quest ot becom a knight to mirror his quest to become a king. A passing of the torch so to speak. Although they might not quite yet make her 'queen', she does seem a bit young.



Also Graham is very old, and feeble, and stuck in bed, while telling his grand daughter stories, which lead her to become a 'leader' like her Grandpa... Me thinks we have influence of KQ1's Edward and Graham ("Quest for the Crown")... Maybe Graham will 'croak' at the end of the series, after telling his story, and Gwendolyn will strive to live up to his legacy and become Daventry's future leader.



But its certainly taking alot of cues from several sources in the series.

On a side note, I get more 'handdrawn storybook' vibe from the new art style more than "disney" style. Character art in animated movies rarely get as much 'shading' and detail, as the many of the character designs are getting in the new game. The way its being told is very Princess Bride, with grandfather telling the story to his grand child (no not KQ7's Princeless Bride)...

[Baggins]

I'd assume about $20 per part.

That's assuming they sell each part individually. IF that's so that would make the entire game $100.

But since the entire game is needed to be played to get the complete story (there is a villain that is tied to all five parts), and choices in each part influences each of the other parts, I hightly doubt they could sell it for that. They'll probably be forced to either price it at Telltale's season price, or go a bit lower.

Most modern adventure games don't sell for more than $30, anything higher than that and people start complaining, that things are overpriced. Way different then when Sierra used to sell games for $59 to $79 depending on if they were floppy or CD!

[Baggins]

There are also rumors that each of the "Chapters" might be as long as a full-sized game such as Grim Fandango. They haven't announced how long each episode is to complete yet, that might actually count all the 'replayability' stuff included. It will be interesting to figure out the number of puzzles each part includes, including variant solutions.

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Puzzle_statistics

[Kaldire]

On a side note, I get more 'handdrawn storybook' vibe from the new art style more than "disney" style. Character art in animated movies rarely get as much 'shading' and detail, as the many of the character designs are getting in the new game. The way its being told is very Princess Bride, with grandfather telling the story to his grand child (no not KQ7's Princeless Bride)...

as you wish mate.. as you wish

like one of my fav movies of all time odd enough