Author Topic: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)  (Read 20188 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sickfiction

  • Team IQ
  • Mastermind
  • *****
  • Posts: 634
  • Liked: 329
  • Gender: Male
  • You can't do that; at least not now.
    • View Profile
    • James' Music Page
Hey guys, James Mulvale, QFI composer here.

When BT first asked me if I'd be interested in scoring Quest for Infamy it was a huge
honour, and almost immediately afterwards made me feel a bit sick. I had written many
many short pieces for different media and TV before but never score an entire game. I was
sure I could do it, but it meant getting a few things straight first.

We talked in depth about styles, and it seemed natural to go down the orchestral route rather than electronic or rock/metal... One thing I really did not want to go down was what
I call 'generic-epic' which is all style and no substance in my opinion. My best example
would be... Ask yourself this question 'Can I hum the tune to Avatar?' go on try... Some
people might be able to, I mean I saw that film twice in the week that it came out.

But a couple of years down the line? Nope I have no idea how that piece of music goes. Same goes with The Dark Knight, or any blockbuster that's been released lately. Can you hum the main theme
even minutes after leaving the theatre? I doubt it. And that's not a criticism of the composers, just more what music has evolved towards in Hollywood in the last handful of years – padding.

Now ask the same question for 'Can I hum the theme for James Bond' or 'Raiders of the
lost Ark' or 'Up.' or 'Jaws' or 'A Fistfull of Dollars' or 'Back to the Future'???

You bet.

The composers here have written a memorable theme that not only encaspulates
the atmosphere and drama on screen, but sticks in your head like an ear-worm.

Now I when I think about video games... If you've played any of the Space Quest series, Monkey Island series, Mario, Sonic the Hedgehog...  Musical themes like that are burned into your brain like that Gotye tune is right now.

I'm not claiming to be as good or as qualified as the folks who wrote all the above music,
but it was a starting point for QFI. It HAS to be a memorable tune, or hook. Furthermore
all the main characters / places must have their own memorable theme too (or leitmotif)
which will identify who's on screen, or where Roehm is at the time.

The main theme from the opening sequence of QFI I composed from the middle (I did not know it would be the middle at the time). The happy, major, marching theme took a while to score but when I showed it to the team they all said (to paraphrase) 'Yeah it's nice, but we need something that punches you in the face right from the start.'

After a couple of failed attempts BT said the magic words. 'I want it to sound like a cross between Ride of the Valkyries and the Imperial Death March.'

Gotcha.

So without actually stealing anything, I knew exactly the feeling he was going for and
within 3 hours I'd written over a minute of music which is what you hear when you first
load the game. I didn't know how to end it though and was still pining over my original
theme. Again BT said 'Try sticking them together.' and sent me a crudely edited version of the two themes back to back. Luckily enough, they were both in the
same key, and roughly the same tempo, so by speeding the original theme up a little and
slowing down the new one, I joined the two themes together the wrong way around and they fit like a glove!

http://soundcloud.com/jamesmulvale/qfi 'Second' theme at (0:18) 'Original' theme at (1:06)

Once that theme was established, it was like a springboard for everything else. I used little
bits of QFI theme dotted all around the game, sometimes obvious like the Brattle/Fishing scene,
sometimes hidden like the Prospero music - if you listen closely to Prospero's theme, an oboe is playing the main theme's melody over the top of all this dissonant eerie glockenspiel and piano. But
it's there, subliminally.

I'm now writing the rest of the music and have some awesome and challenging themes to
come up with. The Port of Myr, Graveyard themes, Tobacconist themes have already
begun to take shape. I just hope that when you turn your computer off, you will go
outside into the real world and start humming the music to yourself!

Music Cues...
UP
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaLegF2hAxI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaLegF2hAxI</a>

BTTF
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMX1_AU1slA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMX1_AU1slA</a>

JAWS
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swMzRlFvKMc" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swMzRlFvKMc</a>

RAIDERS
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNlMgH2p-Y" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNlMgH2p-Y</a>

FISTFUL
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDOdaFZg0" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDOdaFZg0</a>

BOND
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM</a>



DARK KNIGHT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1B3Mgklfd0# (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
AVATAR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaZPF2Co-38# (Embedding disabled, limit reached)

The statements made by this member of Infamous Quests are his/her own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the management of Infamous Quests
--------------------------------------------------------
I am a Narrator, and I ride and I ride.

s_d

  • Most Excellent KS Backer
  • Senior Villain
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Liked: 58
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 10:59:27 PM »
Now ask the same question for 'Can I hum the theme for James Bond' or 'Raiders of the
lost Ark' or 'Up.' or 'Jaws' or 'A Fistfull of Dollars' or 'Back to the Future'???

You bet.
Fantastic musical references, and I completely agree, regarding "generic epic".  It's interesting, if you take a side journey through musical history, you note that the great orchestral compositions of the Baroque and Classical periods were all commissioned works, generally for a noble, or the monarchy.  This was true across the entirety of Europe.  For some virtuoso composers, their entire output was commissioned, via "patronage", with the end result being essentially the same.  The royalty was able to enjoy something original and grand, and, eventually, commoners were able to, as well (of course, folk and traditional roots are another matter entirely).

However, post-industrialization (and the power of world monarchies diminished by representative government), we see this style of patronage decline, and such complex and expensive works all but vanish (except for academia, and the occasional eccentric whim by old-moneyed families and new-money robber-barons).  At some point (those with an actual education in musical history can correct me) it seems that large, complex, epic orchestral works transition into the entertainment space, via live-theater and cinema, as well as advertising. Now, it seems that nearly all large, expensive commissions are related to cinema, television, and interactive media (i.e., video games).

Is sickfiction a modern-day Mozart?  A contemporary Chopin?

Ok, I went tad silly there at the end, but my point is that the field of commissioned orchestral works has shifted dramatically.  I find it enormously frustrating that the mainstream populous seem to largely regard game sound tracks as less "valid" than other composition (though this is changing, as is the overall impact of the games industry).  When the composer (James in this case) takes their craft seriously, they have an opportunity to enrich our lives, if even a little.  Really good music is coming from some really talented, criminally underrated, highly creative composers.

For example, check out Ari Pulkkinen of Ari Tunes.  His metal/techno scores for the two Shadowgrounds games, and orchestral scores for the two Trine games, are fantastic, and insired.  Shadowgrounds is loud, rich, gritty, and hellish... in contrast with Trine, which is lush, layered, and classically whimsical.

What's he best known for?  Angry Birds.

I'm not claiming to be as good or as qualified as the folks who wrote all the above music...
Dude.  Ken "Music Man of Sierra" Allen wants to perform with you, and share your music because he appreciates the quality of it.  You're composing music for a new game by the Two fucking Guys From Andromeda!  That's in addition to already authoring an atmospheric background track for the Two Guys that surely played a part in the success of their campaign.

You're there buddy, and yeah, you're that good.  Expectations are correspondingly high...  ;)

It HAS to be a memorable tune, or hook. Furthermore all the main characters / places must have their own memorable theme too (or leitmotif) which will identify who's on screen, or where Roehm is at the time.

I find myself whistling the hook from the main Volksville Village theme, over and over, recently.  I think it because it lends itself well to that sort of idle "brain-wormish stickiness", where you find it looping in your head before you're consciously aware of the fact.  This my have something to do with having played both demos many dozens of times...

In fact, your compositions on this project, along with good video game scoring in general, tend to tesselate very well.  It must be incredibly challenging to compose with the constraint that it must not begin to suck, even after looping hundreds of times.  I can't imagine... and I'm painfully aware when parts of a game score fail to do so.

Again BT said 'Try sticking them together.' and sent me a crudely edited version of the two themes back to back. Luckily enough, they were both in the same key, and roughly the same tempo, so by speeding the original theme up a little and slowing down the new one, I joined the two themes together the wrong way
around and they fit like a glove!

That fact is a huge surprise, and a hell of story!  It seriously sounds fictionalized... especially when one listens to the theme itself, and it flows so cohesively.  I honestly believed that the composition was intentionally built to shadow (and foreshadow?) the theme of the game itself, the first twenty seconds or so of strings and light-hearted sweetness, followed by the deep horns and percussion, tromping in on it with big stompy boots!

I just hope that ... you will go outside into the real world and start humming the music to yourself!

Heh, success, my friend!  Even my little toddler is enamoured with the game so far, not the least of which due to the scoring, which she sings & hums along with in her own way.  She's always asking me to see "that Infamy game with the little man walking around the places!"   ;D
"Any statements made by this fan of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this fan will be clearly identified as bullshit."

Blackthorne

  • The Big Boss.
  • The Bosses
  • Mastermind
  • *******
  • Posts: 4946
  • Liked: 2812
  • Marmite is the Devil's Seed
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 11:02:20 PM »
Yeah - I enjoy working with James immensely - I, too, am a musician - though not at the compositional caliber of James, but when I have an idea for a theme, I can reference a certain piece of music, or style - or say "Well, I want 8 bars of a minor theme, and can we move it to a major for a B theme...." and he'll come right back, as if we're dancin', and write this amazing music.  It's a lot of fun for me, because I get to flex my old musical muscles a bit, and let his genius create it.


Bt
"Any statements made by this member of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this member will be clearly identified as such."

s_d

  • Most Excellent KS Backer
  • Senior Villain
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Liked: 58
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 11:06:52 PM »
Bt, are you responsible for the sweet, sweet, metal track at the end of the demo, where Roehm (SPOILERS) stands grimly, Beast's head in hand?
"Any statements made by this fan of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this fan will be clearly identified as bullshit."

Blackthorne

  • The Big Boss.
  • The Bosses
  • Mastermind
  • *******
  • Posts: 4946
  • Liked: 2812
  • Marmite is the Devil's Seed
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 11:27:52 PM »
Haha, I wanted a heavier track - but that was all James doing.  He riffed that out himself.


Bt
"Any statements made by this member of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this member will be clearly identified as such."

s_d

  • Most Excellent KS Backer
  • Senior Villain
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Liked: 58
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 12:35:19 AM »
Do it heavier, dude!  Live, and on your own axe!  Include it for us huge metal fans, as a digital extra the DVD (just a FLAC & OGG file or something).

As far as the actual game score, definitely whatever James thinks (he is music director after all) that you and Klytos agree with, is probably best for the game.  But as an extra, I'd definitely welcome a dirty, grinding, heavy cover track, something to blast on my cans while coding  8)

You know, during your copious spare time  ;)
"Any statements made by this fan of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this fan will be clearly identified as bullshit."

nidoking

  • Producers
  • Villain
  • ******
  • Posts: 203
  • Liked: 129
  • Gender: Male
  • 'Tis beyond my reach!
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 10:18:50 AM »
I find myself whistling the hook from the main Volksville Village theme, over and over, recently.  I think it because it lends itself well to that sort of idle "brain-wormish stickiness", where you find it looping in your head before you're consciously aware of the fact.  This my have something to do with having played both demos many dozens of times...

It's definitely not due to overlistening. Before I found the time to play the demo all the way through (and knew where to make the saves so I could actually get there from where I was), there were several mornings when I had an unidentifiable song stuck in my head and couldn't figure out where I'd heard it. That actually happens to me a lot, and I almost always get it in the end, but over the past year or so, it's always been from QFI. This music sticks with you in ways you can't imagine until you've heard it - hours after you stopped playing.

s_d

  • Most Excellent KS Backer
  • Senior Villain
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Liked: 58
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 11:54:55 AM »
It's definitely not due to overlistening.
...
This music sticks with you in ways you can't imagine until you've heard it - hours after you stopped playing.

Thanks for the confirmation, nidoking!

It's really interesting, the human reaction to music.  I just finished reading a book a few months ago, Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain, written by Oliver Sacks (it's not new, and it's pop psych, but I highly recommend it).  Basically, he's a fairly well known neurologist & brain scientist who documented assorted observations from patient cases during his career, and after anonymising them, published some of the more astonishing findings.  The book isn't thoroughly scientific, so caveat emptor regarding clinical accuracy, but to my knowledge, very little of that particular work has been broadly contested.

Anyway, the point is the amongst all the sounds of the living world, those that we're able to observe as music are treated specially in our brains.  It's probably not hugely revelatory to state that shared & emotional experience can affect our memory and perception of a musical piece, nor that conversely, music can have an enormous impact on video game ambiance and atmosphere.  That said, I can't say for certain that late nights playing, and replaying the demo don't add emotionally to my remembrance due to my mental state (curiousity and bug-hunting juxtaposed with humor and the frustration/reward tempo of adventure games).  I can't disentangle the two. 

So, I guess I don't strictly mean overlistening.  Rather, it's more like nostalgia, and pleasant nostalgia at that, but for something new that I'd never seen before last summer.  It's some mix of what I had as a young adventure gamer discovering the genre, but feels new all over again. Hm.  On final thought, I think I've just gone round and round and ended up proving your point  :P
"Any statements made by this fan of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this fan will be clearly identified as bullshit."

sickfiction

  • Team IQ
  • Mastermind
  • *****
  • Posts: 634
  • Liked: 329
  • Gender: Male
  • You can't do that; at least not now.
    • View Profile
    • James' Music Page
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2013, 12:01:27 PM »
Thanks guys, it is a challenge to write music that loops continuously and not get boring although I think I've worked out a method which works quite well.

It is a combination of making the music long enough (usually over a minute) so that by the time you get to the end of the piece, you have probably moved to a new room, and a new method which I've been implementing lately which shares a resemblance to M.C. Escher's never ending staircase

http://bestthing.flyingpudding.com/images/escher_stair.jpg

The musical equivalent being, I 'sneak' a key-change (modulation) in to the music somewhere in the middle, one that you won't notice so much at the time - it will just sound like a nice progression, but it has really changed down a few keys (or up).

This means that when it goes to loop there is a sudden almighty key-change (I try to pick ones that work, rather than unexpected ones.) This whole business means that at the end of the piece it changes key, which keeps it interesting. But it HASN'T changed key, you just think it has, it's really gone back to the start. So the whole build up can start again. Hopefully you will just imagine it being one long piece that continually modulates.

And thanks to S_D for the breakdown and long analysis of my 'essay'. I'm really glad that you are noticing the music. Although it's one of those things, I'm doing my job right if you don't notice it! All the artforms are meant to compliment each other, the background art, the animation, the story, the music, the voices. Nothing should stand out but they should all be equally immersive as to take you on a journey.

And Angry Birds has the catchiest music - ever.

Also, I may consider a full version of the Metal tune if anyone wants to contribute some growling vocals - I can't perform this I'm afraid...

Just an idea :)
The statements made by this member of Infamous Quests are his/her own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the management of Infamous Quests
--------------------------------------------------------
I am a Narrator, and I ride and I ride.

Goatmeal

  • Mastermind
  • *****
  • Posts: 775
  • Liked: 579
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 03:52:54 PM »
As a fan of movie scores since the late 1970s and computer game scores since the early 1990s, here is something I've always wanted to ask you, Brandon and Isaac:

Is it more difficult to compose a piece of music 4-8 minutes long that doesn't repeat itself so much and can go wherever it takes you (musically), or one that is only 1-1½ minutes long but must tie-in with the intention of repeating?

s_d

  • Most Excellent KS Backer
  • Senior Villain
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
  • Liked: 58
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 04:51:39 PM »
All the artforms are meant to compliment each other, the background art, the animation, the story, the music, the voices. Nothing should stand out but they should all be equally immersive as to take you on a journey.

Oh, I've already showered my praise on the rest of the team, for the large immersive world & visual aesthetic.  You'd been kind of neglected.  Also, I have a penchant for going overboard upon analysis  :-[

And Angry Birds has the catchiest music - ever.

No doubt, but I haven't the same interest in listening to it in comparison to his other work.  The Trine 2 soundtrack is so good, and I'm loving instrumental work recently for two reasons.  Firstly, lyrics can be quite distracting while I'm trying to write code (except death growl, which is more like an instrument, to me), and secondly, I don't have to vet the lyrics before playing them for my little girl.  She also digs Apocalyptica for the same reason.  I don't want to limit her musical horizons to typical toddler sing-along albums, because I want to establish a broader musical tradition in my household, and also because I can't stand that crap.

Also, I may consider a full version of the Metal tune if anyone wants to contribute some growling vocals - I can't perform this I'm afraid...

There... are... lyrics?!   :o

Now I need to find a vocalist for you!
"Any statements made by this fan of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this fan will be clearly identified as bullshit."

sickfiction

  • Team IQ
  • Mastermind
  • *****
  • Posts: 634
  • Liked: 329
  • Gender: Male
  • You can't do that; at least not now.
    • View Profile
    • James' Music Page
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2013, 05:45:36 PM »
As a fan of movie scores since the late 1970s and computer game scores since the early 1990s, here is something I've always wanted to ask you, Brandon and Isaac:

Is it more difficult to compose a piece of music 4-8 minutes long that doesn't repeat itself so much and can go wherever it takes you (musically), or one that is only 1-1½ minutes long but must tie-in with the intention of repeating?
I would have to say that writing a 1 minute loop that stays interesting is harder than a longer piece that has a definite end but what's hardest is writing to a specific time.  Some of my past clients have asked for things like 'we need 28 seconds that begins slowly, builds around 15s a crescendo at 25s and a tail for a voice over.'

QFI has left me to be fairly free with the timings which has been amazing. Some of the cutscenes are going to be more time related, and I'm hoping for a musical puzzle at some point...

s_d we have no lyrics but if you want to suggest a verse it could make a fun extra or easter egg...
The statements made by this member of Infamous Quests are his/her own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the management of Infamous Quests
--------------------------------------------------------
I am a Narrator, and I ride and I ride.

Lambonius

  • Team IQ
  • Mastermind
  • *****
  • Posts: 3272
  • Liked: 1762
  • Gender: Male
  • Mojo Brojo
    • View Profile
    • Infamous Adventures
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 06:41:36 PM »
A puzzle that incorporates different musical cues would be amazing!  Or something you have to figure out by recognizing repetitions or changes in the music...wow, yeah--there are a lot of possibilities.  Very good idea--and creative!  Steve, you should get on that!  ;)
Lambonius...Rarely has our moderating team encountered a forumite as consistently unpleasant as you, and you've burned through far more chances than you deserved. A person really has to try hard to be so obnoxious that they're banned from AG, but you've managed it and then some.

Blackthorne

  • The Big Boss.
  • The Bosses
  • Mastermind
  • *******
  • Posts: 4946
  • Liked: 2812
  • Marmite is the Devil's Seed
    • View Profile
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 07:12:52 PM »
Yeah, I've thought of that, but I'm also thinking of ways to make an alternate puzzle for those who are deaf.  Therein lies the rub.


Bt
"Any statements made by this member of Infamous Quests is his own personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of Infamous Quests. Any official statements made about Infamous Quests by this member will be clearly identified as such."

sickfiction

  • Team IQ
  • Mastermind
  • *****
  • Posts: 634
  • Liked: 329
  • Gender: Male
  • You can't do that; at least not now.
    • View Profile
    • James' Music Page
Re: How I write the music for Quest for Infamy - (or quest for a theme)
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 07:18:08 PM »
Yeah, I've thought of that, but I'm also thinking of ways to make an alternate puzzle for those who are deaf.  Therein lies the rub.


Bt
do it in song so it can be a rhyming thing, remember the Captain Rottingham song in MI3? Roehm can have MC competition lol
The statements made by this member of Infamous Quests are his/her own, and do not necessarily reflect those of the management of Infamous Quests
--------------------------------------------------------
I am a Narrator, and I ride and I ride.