King's Quest Discussion

[Baggins]

I believe we were going to fix a few of these inconsistencies in the cancelled Gold Edition because as Steve said this was our first foray into game development and ultimately we just wanted to prove that we could release a game. Looking back at it there are of course a lot of things we'd like to change but with no plans to go back to it we just have to accept it for what it is, a labour of love from a bunch of fans.

I will never forgive you for cancelling that. You will rue the day! 

[Baggins]

"According to legend, shortly after Rosella's rescue King Graham decided it was time to pass on his adventurer's cap. Gathering in his wife and two children..."

That doesn't really contradict KQ3 either. Because shortly after Alexander and Rosella enter the throne room after the rescue. Graham calls them together close to him to show them the broken magic mirror, and then pass on his adventurers cap.

Calling them close together, and gathering in mean the same thing.

But yes I can understand it how you could choose to reinterpret one way, but it also can be interpreted the other way as well.

I honestly just consider your game a reimagining. It's one that sticks closest to the original games in style and plot. Something feel The Odd Gentlemen get right as well.

[Baggins]

BTW, is there a transcript/subtitle file for the KQ3 remake game? One we could add to the Kings Quest Omnipedia, like I've done for the original games?

[Klytos]

I'll try hunt one down for you. I'll have to find the old source!

Lamb joined a forum to bitch about something. Who would have thought?!!?! I stand by that decision too, it was copy protection and it sucked. Sorry if I had a copy of the game growing up that had a shitty manual that was wrong, that may have tainted my view of that crazy bullshit spell system!

From memory @daventry I'm pretty sure that cutscene happens if you wait for Manannan to leave the second time. It's certainly when he leaves for a trip once.

Also, another change I just remembered while typing that was we had a limit on how many times Manannan could go away before you die. This was to remove the dead-end where you can feed Manannan all your food and then not be able to progress.

[Lambonius]

Lamb joined a forum to bitch about something. Who would have thought?!!?! I stand by that decision too, it was copy protection and it sucked. Sorry if I had a copy of the game growing up that had a shitty manual that was wrong, that may have tainted my view of that crazy bullshit spell system!

  Hey, I'm not defending the crap copy protection system of the original game; I just think you guys went too far the other way, making it too automated.  The plan we had for the Gold edition would have been perfect though.  Oh well.

[Baggins]

I'll try hunt one down for you. I'll have to find the old source!

Lamb joined a forum to bitch about something. Who would have thought?!!?! I stand by that decision too, it was copy protection and it sucked. Sorry if I had a copy of the game growing up that had a shitty manual that was wrong, that may have tainted my view of that crazy bullshit spell system!

It is one of those grey areas, KQ3 had two forms of copy protection. The traditional disk based kind. I.E. the disk was supposed to be difficult to copy (obviously ways to get past that).

Also technically wasn't a very good 'copy-protection' since it made up 90% of the game's actual puzzles, was important to the story, and pretty much all the official hint books included copies of the spellbook. I.E. The Official Book of King's Quest by Donald Trivette, and The King's Quest Companion by Peter Spear. Basically someone could buy either of those two books and actually pirate the game! Of course in Sierra's discussion of it, some argue it was a gameplay mechanic, and not actually intended to be copy protection it was one of "Roberta's great ideas'. However, some argue she intended to actually make it copy protection. So who knows...

From memory @daventry I'm pretty sure that cutscene happens if you wait for Manannan to leave the second time. It's certainly when he leaves for a trip once.

I'd have to check the notes I put on the wiki, but I seem to recall it might by third trip. After you have used up two of the food items. But you might be right as well.

Also, another change I just remembered while typing that was we had a limit on how many times Manannan could go away before you die. This was to remove the dead-end where you can feed Manannan all your food and then not be able to progress.

Technically there is a limit in the original game. Once you run out of food you die, he will kill you upon the 5th time he asks for food (or at least the second time you refuse to give him food (this could make it six times he asks for food), assuming you haven't received the minor 'warning punishment' first earlier in the game).

At least one of the remakes does away with this, by adding a never ending source of food at the Bear's House IIRC.

[Baggins]

How far did you get into the Gold Edition before you decided to cancel it?

Was it AGDI that made a cutscene to the House of Mordack with Manannan.

Daventry, I'm not sure anyone answered this question for you. It's at the end of the IA/IQ version of the game, but only if you got 100% of the points IIRC.

[Klytos]

Yeah, it's the full point ending. Sorry, I missed that. AGDI added the never-ending food supply. A neat little workaround I thought.

KQ3 Gold was pretty much done, it probably needed a few more bits and pieces but by and large it was done. The spell system (a Freddy Pharkas clone basically) needed a lot more testing. A few pieces of the work we did has been reused in Order of the Thorne, the Rosella sprites are now a shop keeper, there's some fishermen we added to Port Bruce that are reused. The main Gwydion sprites were all redone and are being used in the upcoming OOTT : Fortress of Fire. We've not made a "game" out of KQ3 Gold but there's enough used now in other projects that it would require a lot of work to get it out. Actually, now I think about it, the interior of the store from KQ3 Gold was used as the basis for a shop in QFI.

[Klytos]

Oh, I'm just fucking with @Lambonius too. He knows that! In retrospect I'd have done the spell system differently, more in line with what we had planned in Gold but, shit happens!

[daventry]

I decided to Google Chamber Pot since i never realized as to what it is when playing KQ3 through the Years, i cannot believe Roberta Williams would put something like that in a Game. Even Manannan says he's Chamber Pot needs cleaning, gross. Ye Old Toilet.

[Baggins]

LOL, I knew what it was when I first played. I was young too. I think its included for the 'humor' factor. It has one of those joke comments, like "What a way to make a living".

Wrinkling your nose in disgust, you throw the smelly contents of the chamber pot out the open window. What a way to make a living!"

Many of the jobs, and most of the punishments also included a pun or joke either in the narration or from Manannan's comments. The game actually has quite a bit of humor in it.

[Baggins]

Yeah, it's the full point ending. Sorry, I missed that. AGDI added the never-ending food supply. A neat little workaround I thought.

KQ3 Gold was pretty much done, it probably needed a few more bits and pieces but by and large it was done. The spell system (a Freddy Pharkas clone basically) needed a lot more testing. A few pieces of the work we did has been reused in Order of the Thorne, the Rosella sprites are now a shop keeper, there's some fishermen we added to Port Bruce that are reused. The main Gwydion sprites were all redone and are being used in the upcoming OOTT : Fortress of Fire. We've not made a "game" out of KQ3 Gold but there's enough used now in other projects that it would require a lot of work to get it out. Actually, now I think about it, the interior of the store from KQ3 Gold was used as the basis for a shop in QFI.

Seriously, if it was at that point, why was it cancelled? Stopped by Activision?

If not, why not just finish it up at some point, when you get some free time?

Now OOTT, that's more or less built upon the locations and ideas that you were going to include in King's Quest: Kingdom of Sorrow? At least some of the artwork looks very familiar.

Is there any chance you'd be willing to release some of the design ideas that were going to go into the cancelled Kingdom of Sorrow, and put them up on the wiki's page for that project? For history's sake?

[Klytos]

Because we went commercial and we can't be producing illegal games, hence the distinction between Infamous Adventures and the incorporated Infamous Quests, while trying to make money off other original titles. It blurs the line too much. The writing had been on the wall since Activision became the dominant partner, at the time TellTale had the KQ rights and it was obvious that there was interest in a commercial sense from Activision to commercially do something with them. We always flew under the radar with our games but we wouldn't have ever got a fan licence (they stopped issuing those) and they're not good enough quality to sell commercially, and to protect their property they would quite rightly C&D us.

And the other reasons are commercial. Putting the legal issues aside, releasing KQ3 Gold does nothing for us - it's not going to introduce new fans to adventure games or us, and AGDI released their version so there's now three versions of the same game for people to play with. (And with free time I'd rather be working on a game that I could sell and make a little money from! Sorry to be blunt but that's the truth of it. You can only make free games for so long before you either have to admit you can make a game once a decade part-time or you do it full-time and sell them.)

As for KOS, there is zero plot, ideas or programming from that in OOTT. A couple of the locations were used, but those have been updated as well. There's not really any design ideas from KOS that you can't get from reading the book, it was pretty much a direct copy.

[Baggins]

What exactly was the village with the giant tree in the center with the hedge around it? Or the Dinosaur creature? Or Graham stripped down to his briefs? I don't remember those locations or ideas in Kingdom of Sorrow.

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=b33YVcLiNoqA8QfRuZHIDA&gws_rd=ssl#q=Kingdom+of+sorrow+game

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/King's_Quest:_Kingdom_of_Sorrow_(Infamous_Adventures)

[Klytos]

Meh, it's been so long since I read the book (and it was so bad I've tried to forget that I did - although not as bad as the Rosella one) that I don't really remember. We probably added in a town to flesh it out somewhat so there's a central location for the hero to work from.