Author Topic: King's Quest Discussion  (Read 17589 times)

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daventry

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King's Quest Discussion
« on: August 21, 2015, 01:29:20 AM »
Just re-played KQ2 yesterday and i cannot believe how dumb down that Old Game was, theres so much love and story wise in KQ2VGA by AGDI but that Dang Father part just ruins it all.

In my view, my KQ Game Collection is KQ1VGA by AGDI - with the Old KQ2 - and then KQ3VGA by IA - with the rest of the KQ Games.

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 03:41:41 AM »
The problem I have with AGDIs remake is they added so much it's a completely new game. That being the case they should have just done a new hero sprite and renamed things. That's why our KQ3 remake didn't add anything really, just expanded the existing story. Well truthfully we added the cutscene with graham and rosella because josh agreed to voice the king again so we wanted a bit more beef to it. And we added the mordac cutscene because we had Andy hoyos voice manannan so wanted to have a mordac line!


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daventry

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2015, 06:26:41 AM »
How should the KQ2VGA be remade and how would you guys have done it. :)

There is a teensy tiny mistake with your version of KQ3VGA the House of Manannan never gets destroyed.  :-[
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Derek_Karlavaegen

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2015, 08:26:43 AM »
Well that depends on whether you believe that book is canon or not. I take the view that only the games are canon, hence I win. :) Plus, burning down the house is cool.

Here's my view on remakes (short version): the story should stay the same because that's what the game is about. If you're remaking somebody else's work then be faithful to the source material. If I was to remake KQ2 I'd not bother because the story basically sucks. It's so cliche and boring. But putting that aside, I'd remove the randomness (like Red Riding hood showing up on a randomiser) because random fucking sucks. I'd remove the circular world (again, it sucks) and probably do what we did in KQ3 and border the world somehow. And I'd do something about that crazy-ass-bullshit bridle puzzle.
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Baggins

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2015, 08:31:38 AM »

Baggins

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2015, 08:35:57 AM »
The problem I have with AGDIs remake is they added so much it's a completely new game. That being the case they should have just done a new hero sprite and renamed things. That's why our KQ3 remake didn't add anything really, just expanded the existing story. Well truthfully we added the cutscene with graham and rosella because josh agreed to voice the king again so we wanted a bit more beef to it. And we added the mordac cutscene because we had Andy hoyos voice manannan so wanted to have a mordac line!


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Well while I'm not a huge fan of the fan remakes in general,  do have to say your version was the best the bunch because it did try to stick to the themes and ideas of the original.

You didn't do much other than a few changes here or there. Like the timing of the ending between KQ3 and KQ4. Spreading months between the two games (when the original KQ3, KQ4, manuals and everything said it was directly after).

Baggins

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2015, 08:46:03 AM »
Here's my view on remakes (short version): the story should stay the same because that's what the game is about. If you're remaking somebody else's work then be faithful to the source material. If I was to remake KQ2 I'd not bother because the story basically sucks. It's so cliche and boring. But putting that aside, I'd remove the randomness (like Red Riding hood showing up on a randomiser) because random fucking sucks. I'd remove the circular world (again, it sucks) and probably do what we did in KQ3 and border the world somehow. And I'd do something about that crazy-ass-bullshit bridle puzzle.


The Bridle puzzle is based on two sets of myths Medusa's death being the birth of Pegasus, and Belepheron's attempt to ride Pegasus with a magic bridle. One way to fix that would be to possible scatter clues to both myths elsewhere in the world. Or have the snake say something that might link it to Medusa.

On a side note, does your 'only the games are canon' also extend to to ignore the manuals, articles and other things as well? Noting that you did ignore the timing between KQ3 and 4, by extending it weeks or months between both. I think AGDI largely ignored the manuals in their games too, rewriting them and adding changing things for their purposes.

Obviously some of the manuals and official hintbooks (well largely in particular KQ6, and its hint book), do make references to The King's Quest Companion. The game King's Questions even made multiple references to the Companion (strangely I might add, because my guess most people wouldn't know that the monastery in KQ2's known as the Monastery of the Blessed Wilbury with the game alone). KQ5 NES also makes an offhand reference to the companion in one scene ("Cedric being turned to stone", this change was probably chosen due to Nintendo's strange censorship rules at the time). There is a very minor reference taking from wording from the Companion about 'royal physicians' trying to take care of Graham after his heart attack in the KQ5 or is KQ6's about screen.

Oh did you notice that your 'removing' the circular world in KQ3, actually broke visual continuity? You actually have buildings in the distance that lie to the south of the mountain in the way you bordered things! Like you can still see Three-Bears House to the north, and the port to the north. When they are clearly south on your map! A simple fix would have been to simply paint over those landmarks, or replace them with others. Like from there you should probably be able to see the Oracle cave?

Edit: I guess you did at least paint over the Three-Bears house, and possibly added the cave.

But the village is definitely in the wrong spot!



Edit: No wait this is the image I was trying to remember, there is the bear's house, and the town! Everything is completely out of order of how you located things in the actual world, when you climb down from the mountain, or see on the magic map. That is you have placed most the landmarks from the south see magic map, and ingame world, to the north when they are viewing north from the mountain (the town, the bear's house, the bandit's tree, etc).




Baggins

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 09:04:06 AM »
If you consider the Companion not to be canon, why did you call the town of Llewdor: Port Bruce? Cause that is clearly a Companion reference.  ;D


http://www.infamous-adventures.com/kq3/index.php?page=faq#

http://www.infamous-adventures.com/KQ3Site/GridLlewdor.png

daventry

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 09:44:00 AM »
Just finished KQ3VGA by IA while making my own walkthrough about the Game.

Still loving the Version by IA so sorry AGDI you had to twist the Father plot in your KQ2VGA KQ3VGA

I love the ending cutscene where Alexander and Graham is helping to Rebuild Daventry, because i think its a nice touch.

Was it AGDI that made a cutscene to the House of Mordack with Manannan.

Anyway, 10/10 for IA and a 9/10 for AGDI Father can go kiss my......

Taking away stupid things if there was a KQ2VGA by IA would be a mistake, since you would butcher the Game even more like what AGDI did. I like their Game as it is, but for my Version of a KQ2VGA i would stick with the Village and put a Castle where Graham gets to meet the Parents of Valenice where we discover why Hagatha hated her, since its never really stated why. The Bridle could be a cutscene where we see a sad Prince in town that tells of how he flew on he's flying Horse when all of a sudden it got turned into a Snake while he was tumbling to the water with the bridle below. The scared Prince then gives the Bridle to Graham where we then throw it on the Snake. Lame plot i know, but i got nothing else.

Blackthorne

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 09:55:24 AM »
Truth is, we just didn't think that much about this stuff.  We made that KQ3 remake 10 years ago.  Wow.  A decade ago.  We released it in 2006, but most of the stuff you're talking about was already done and made 10 years ago.  We had a lot of different people working on the crew then - that close up/wide angle shot was done by a kid named Charlie Shields.  He was a teenager at the time, but now he's probably a young man in his mid-twenties! I don't know what ever happened to him.


Bt
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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2015, 10:02:29 AM »
I believe we were going to fix a few of these inconsistencies in the cancelled Gold Edition because as Steve said this was our first foray into game development and ultimately we just wanted to prove that we could release a game. Looking back at it there are of course a lot of things we'd like to change but with no plans to go back to it we just have to accept it for what it is, a labour of love from a bunch of fans.
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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2015, 10:14:21 AM »
It's not called Port Bruce in the game? Heh, well there you go. Honestly, you're going into a lot more detail than we did at the time.

We had the closeups drawn before we bordered the map and I never bothered to go back and get them redone. Working with a team of volunteers it's hard enough getting something done once let alone redone. I couldn't even tell you who did the magic map screens now! Too long ago. (EDIT: Saw BT's post, Charlie! Cool kid.)

The time difference at the end. This was simply a creative decision because the KQ3 ending sucked. So anti-climatic. You walked into the castle and the game ended. It's a small attempt at showing Graham and Alexander getting to know each other by working together to rebuild the Kingdom. Graham getting his family back and basically saying "Hey, thanks for showing up, here's my hat kids. I'm outa here!" doesn't fit his character at all. In my opinion anyway. I really don't think the extra couple of months changes anything in the grand scheme of things. It's the same story, just spaced out better. (Plus, it gave more lines for Josh Mandel to speak and helped humanise Graham, something Josh wanted to do).

We did change the throne room so it matched the KQ6 one! That was something I really wanted to do.
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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2015, 10:17:17 AM »
Also, I'll just say our version of the ending does fit nicely with the KQ4 manual.

"According to legend, shortly after Rosella's rescue King Graham decided it was time to pass on his adventurer's cap. Gathering in his wife and two children..."

If you read that the way I do, "shortly after" can work quite easily for what we did which in turn contradicts KQ3 AGI. That's a lot of the problem, Roberta shit on her own continuity a lot.

EDIT: I love the Sierra manuals btw. That's why our SQ2 remake included the Letterdroid scene which was lifted straight from the manual.
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daventry

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2015, 11:23:21 AM »
Any specific way to activate the Easter Egg where Manannanan meets Mordack at the Castle.

Heres my KQ3VGA Walkthrough for IA - Its infact my Walkthrough for AGDI, but i saw how close the Gameplay is in AGDI and IA, so theres really no diffrence in witch Game is witch the Walkthrough is for.
http://www.gameboomers.com/wtcheats/pcKk/KQ3VGAbyvanZyl.htm

By the way
https://blog.activision.com/community/games-blog/more-games/blog/2015/08/20/king-s-quest-gets-a-brand-new-trailer-and-a-panel-at-pax-prime

Lambonius

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Re: Re: King's Quest Discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2015, 04:01:36 PM »
My first ever post on the IA forums was to bitch about how these idiots broke the spell-making system from the original by dumbing it down to an auto-create system.  The Gold edition would have made it more like KQ6, where you at least have to combine ingredients and say the incantations, and I believe we had planned and started working on a Freddy Pharkas style interface, and had considered adding a few more layers to it to make it a little deeper from a puzzle solving standpoint.

Nothing beats the original KQ3VGA Gwydion climbing animation though.  That was classic shitty fan-game gold.
Lambonius...Rarely has our moderating team encountered a forumite as consistently unpleasant as you, and you've burned through far more chances than you deserved. A person really has to try hard to be so obnoxious that they're banned from AG, but you've managed it and then some.