Infamous Quests
Public Forums => Banter and Chit-Chat! => Topic started by: daventry on August 21, 2015, 01:29:20 AM
-
Just re-played KQ2 yesterday and i cannot believe how dumb down that Old Game was, theres so much love and story wise in KQ2VGA by AGDI but that Dang Father part just ruins it all.
In my view, my KQ Game Collection is KQ1VGA by AGDI - with the Old KQ2 - and then KQ3VGA by IA - with the rest of the KQ Games.
-
The problem I have with AGDIs remake is they added so much it's a completely new game. That being the case they should have just done a new hero sprite and renamed things. That's why our KQ3 remake didn't add anything really, just expanded the existing story. Well truthfully we added the cutscene with graham and rosella because josh agreed to voice the king again so we wanted a bit more beef to it. And we added the mordac cutscene because we had Andy hoyos voice manannan so wanted to have a mordac line!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
How should the KQ2VGA be remade and how would you guys have done it. :)
There is a teensy tiny mistake with your version of KQ3VGA the House of Manannan never gets destroyed. :-[
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Derek_Karlavaegen (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Derek_Karlavaegen)
-
Well that depends on whether you believe that book is canon or not. I take the view that only the games are canon, hence I win. :) Plus, burning down the house is cool.
Here's my view on remakes (short version): the story should stay the same because that's what the game is about. If you're remaking somebody else's work then be faithful to the source material. If I was to remake KQ2 I'd not bother because the story basically sucks. It's so cliche and boring. But putting that aside, I'd remove the randomness (like Red Riding hood showing up on a randomiser) because random fucking sucks. I'd remove the circular world (again, it sucks) and probably do what we did in KQ3 and border the world somehow. And I'd do something about that crazy-ass-bullshit bridle puzzle.
-
BTW, I haven't had time to post, but here is my review.
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Baggins/Baggins%27_Review:_King%27s_Quest_Chapter_I:_A_Knight_to_Remember (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Baggins/Baggins%27_Review:_King%27s_Quest_Chapter_I:_A_Knight_to_Remember)
-
The problem I have with AGDIs remake is they added so much it's a completely new game. That being the case they should have just done a new hero sprite and renamed things. That's why our KQ3 remake didn't add anything really, just expanded the existing story. Well truthfully we added the cutscene with graham and rosella because josh agreed to voice the king again so we wanted a bit more beef to it. And we added the mordac cutscene because we had Andy hoyos voice manannan so wanted to have a mordac line!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well while I'm not a huge fan of the fan remakes in general, do have to say your version was the best the bunch because it did try to stick to the themes and ideas of the original.
You didn't do much other than a few changes here or there. Like the timing of the ending between KQ3 and KQ4. Spreading months between the two games (when the original KQ3, KQ4, manuals and everything said it was directly after).
-
Here's my view on remakes (short version): the story should stay the same because that's what the game is about. If you're remaking somebody else's work then be faithful to the source material. If I was to remake KQ2 I'd not bother because the story basically sucks. It's so cliche and boring. But putting that aside, I'd remove the randomness (like Red Riding hood showing up on a randomiser) because random fucking sucks. I'd remove the circular world (again, it sucks) and probably do what we did in KQ3 and border the world somehow. And I'd do something about that crazy-ass-bullshit bridle puzzle.
The Bridle puzzle is based on two sets of myths Medusa's death being the birth of Pegasus, and Belepheron's attempt to ride Pegasus with a magic bridle. One way to fix that would be to possible scatter clues to both myths elsewhere in the world. Or have the snake say something that might link it to Medusa.
On a side note, does your 'only the games are canon' also extend to to ignore the manuals, articles and other things as well? Noting that you did ignore the timing between KQ3 and 4, by extending it weeks or months between both. I think AGDI largely ignored the manuals in their games too, rewriting them and adding changing things for their purposes.
Obviously some of the manuals and official hintbooks (well largely in particular KQ6, and its hint book), do make references to The King's Quest Companion. The game King's Questions even made multiple references to the Companion (strangely I might add, because my guess most people wouldn't know that the monastery in KQ2's known as the Monastery of the Blessed Wilbury with the game alone). KQ5 NES also makes an offhand reference to the companion in one scene ("Cedric being turned to stone", this change was probably chosen due to Nintendo's strange censorship rules at the time). There is a very minor reference taking from wording from the Companion about 'royal physicians' trying to take care of Graham after his heart attack in the KQ5 or is KQ6's about screen.
Oh did you notice that your 'removing' the circular world in KQ3, actually broke visual continuity? You actually have buildings in the distance that lie to the south of the mountain in the way you bordered things! Like you can still see Three-Bears House to the north, and the port to the north. When they are clearly south on your map! A simple fix would have been to simply paint over those landmarks, or replace them with others. Like from there you should probably be able to see the Oracle cave?
Edit: I guess you did at least paint over the Three-Bears house, and possibly added the cave.
But the village is definitely in the wrong spot!
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/2/2c/MananhouseIA.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20080110155443)
Edit: No wait this is the image I was trying to remember, there is the bear's house, and the town! Everything is completely out of order of how you located things in the actual world, when you climb down from the mountain, or see on the magic map. That is you have placed most the landmarks from the south see magic map, and ingame world, to the north when they are viewing north from the mountain (the town, the bear's house, the bandit's tree, etc).
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/7/77/LonemountainoverlookKQ3IA.png/revision/latest?cb=20110207165003)
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/kingsquest/images/4/47/LlewdorKQ3remake.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20080110155916)
-
If you consider the Companion not to be canon, why did you call the town of Llewdor: Port Bruce? Cause that is clearly a Companion reference. ;D
http://www.infamous-adventures.com/kq3/index.php?page=faq# (http://www.infamous-adventures.com/kq3/index.php?page=faq#)
http://www.infamous-adventures.com/KQ3Site/GridLlewdor.png (http://www.infamous-adventures.com/KQ3Site/GridLlewdor.png)
-
Just finished KQ3VGA by IA while making my own walkthrough about the Game.
Still loving the Version by IA so sorry AGDI you had to twist the Father plot in your KQ2VGA KQ3VGA
I love the ending cutscene where Alexander and Graham is helping to Rebuild Daventry, because i think its a nice touch.
Was it AGDI that made a cutscene to the House of Mordack with Manannan.
Anyway, 10/10 for IA and a 9/10 for AGDI Father can go kiss my......
Taking away stupid things if there was a KQ2VGA by IA would be a mistake, since you would butcher the Game even more like what AGDI did. I like their Game as it is, but for my Version of a KQ2VGA i would stick with the Village and put a Castle where Graham gets to meet the Parents of Valenice where we discover why Hagatha hated her, since its never really stated why. The Bridle could be a cutscene where we see a sad Prince in town that tells of how he flew on he's flying Horse when all of a sudden it got turned into a Snake while he was tumbling to the water with the bridle below. The scared Prince then gives the Bridle to Graham where we then throw it on the Snake. Lame plot i know, but i got nothing else.
-
Truth is, we just didn't think that much about this stuff. We made that KQ3 remake 10 years ago. Wow. A decade ago. We released it in 2006, but most of the stuff you're talking about was already done and made 10 years ago. We had a lot of different people working on the crew then - that close up/wide angle shot was done by a kid named Charlie Shields. He was a teenager at the time, but now he's probably a young man in his mid-twenties! I don't know what ever happened to him.
Bt
-
I believe we were going to fix a few of these inconsistencies in the cancelled Gold Edition because as Steve said this was our first foray into game development and ultimately we just wanted to prove that we could release a game. Looking back at it there are of course a lot of things we'd like to change but with no plans to go back to it we just have to accept it for what it is, a labour of love from a bunch of fans.
-
It's not called Port Bruce in the game? Heh, well there you go. Honestly, you're going into a lot more detail than we did at the time.
We had the closeups drawn before we bordered the map and I never bothered to go back and get them redone. Working with a team of volunteers it's hard enough getting something done once let alone redone. I couldn't even tell you who did the magic map screens now! Too long ago. (EDIT: Saw BT's post, Charlie! Cool kid.)
The time difference at the end. This was simply a creative decision because the KQ3 ending sucked. So anti-climatic. You walked into the castle and the game ended. It's a small attempt at showing Graham and Alexander getting to know each other by working together to rebuild the Kingdom. Graham getting his family back and basically saying "Hey, thanks for showing up, here's my hat kids. I'm outa here!" doesn't fit his character at all. In my opinion anyway. I really don't think the extra couple of months changes anything in the grand scheme of things. It's the same story, just spaced out better. (Plus, it gave more lines for Josh Mandel to speak and helped humanise Graham, something Josh wanted to do).
We did change the throne room so it matched the KQ6 one! That was something I really wanted to do.
-
Also, I'll just say our version of the ending does fit nicely with the KQ4 manual.
"According to legend, shortly after Rosella's rescue King Graham decided it was time to pass on his adventurer's cap. Gathering in his wife and two children..."
If you read that the way I do, "shortly after" can work quite easily for what we did which in turn contradicts KQ3 AGI. That's a lot of the problem, Roberta shit on her own continuity a lot.
EDIT: I love the Sierra manuals btw. That's why our SQ2 remake included the Letterdroid scene which was lifted straight from the manual.
-
Any specific way to activate the Easter Egg where Manannanan meets Mordack at the Castle.
Heres my KQ3VGA Walkthrough for IA - Its infact my Walkthrough for AGDI, but i saw how close the Gameplay is in AGDI and IA, so theres really no diffrence in witch Game is witch the Walkthrough is for.
http://www.gameboomers.com/wtcheats/pcKk/KQ3VGAbyvanZyl.htm (http://www.gameboomers.com/wtcheats/pcKk/KQ3VGAbyvanZyl.htm)
By the way
https://blog.activision.com/community/games-blog/more-games/blog/2015/08/20/king-s-quest-gets-a-brand-new-trailer-and-a-panel-at-pax-prime (https://blog.activision.com/community/games-blog/more-games/blog/2015/08/20/king-s-quest-gets-a-brand-new-trailer-and-a-panel-at-pax-prime)
-
My first ever post on the IA forums was to bitch about how these idiots broke the spell-making system from the original by dumbing it down to an auto-create system. The Gold edition would have made it more like KQ6, where you at least have to combine ingredients and say the incantations, and I believe we had planned and started working on a Freddy Pharkas style interface, and had considered adding a few more layers to it to make it a little deeper from a puzzle solving standpoint.
Nothing beats the original KQ3VGA Gwydion climbing animation though. That was classic shitty fan-game gold.
-
I believe we were going to fix a few of these inconsistencies in the cancelled Gold Edition because as Steve said this was our first foray into game development and ultimately we just wanted to prove that we could release a game. Looking back at it there are of course a lot of things we'd like to change but with no plans to go back to it we just have to accept it for what it is, a labour of love from a bunch of fans.
I will never forgive you for cancelling that. You will rue the day! :'( >:( ;D
-
"According to legend, shortly after Rosella's rescue King Graham decided it was time to pass on his adventurer's cap. Gathering in his wife and two children..."
That doesn't really contradict KQ3 either. Because shortly after Alexander and Rosella enter the throne room after the rescue. Graham calls them together close to him to show them the broken magic mirror, and then pass on his adventurers cap.
Calling them close together, and gathering in mean the same thing.
But yes I can understand it how you could choose to reinterpret one way, but it also can be interpreted the other way as well.
I honestly just consider your game a reimagining. It's one that sticks closest to the original games in style and plot. Something feel The Odd Gentlemen get right as well.
-
BTW, is there a transcript/subtitle file for the KQ3 remake game? One we could add to the Kings Quest Omnipedia, like I've done for the original games?
-
I'll try hunt one down for you. I'll have to find the old source!
Lamb joined a forum to bitch about something. Who would have thought?!!?! I stand by that decision too, it was copy protection and it sucked. Sorry if I had a copy of the game growing up that had a shitty manual that was wrong, that may have tainted my view of that crazy bullshit spell system!
From memory @daventry (http://www.infamous-quests.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=570) I'm pretty sure that cutscene happens if you wait for Manannan to leave the second time. It's certainly when he leaves for a trip once.
Also, another change I just remembered while typing that was we had a limit on how many times Manannan could go away before you die. This was to remove the dead-end where you can feed Manannan all your food and then not be able to progress.
-
Lamb joined a forum to bitch about something. Who would have thought?!!?! I stand by that decision too, it was copy protection and it sucked. Sorry if I had a copy of the game growing up that had a shitty manual that was wrong, that may have tainted my view of that crazy bullshit spell system!
;) Hey, I'm not defending the crap copy protection system of the original game; I just think you guys went too far the other way, making it too automated. The plan we had for the Gold edition would have been perfect though. Oh well.
-
I'll try hunt one down for you. I'll have to find the old source!
Lamb joined a forum to bitch about something. Who would have thought?!!?! I stand by that decision too, it was copy protection and it sucked. Sorry if I had a copy of the game growing up that had a shitty manual that was wrong, that may have tainted my view of that crazy bullshit spell system!
It is one of those grey areas, KQ3 had two forms of copy protection. The traditional disk based kind. I.E. the disk was supposed to be difficult to copy (obviously ways to get past that).
Also technically wasn't a very good 'copy-protection' since it made up 90% of the game's actual puzzles, was important to the story, and pretty much all the official hint books included copies of the spellbook. I.E. The Official Book of King's Quest by Donald Trivette, and The King's Quest Companion by Peter Spear. Basically someone could buy either of those two books and actually pirate the game! Of course in Sierra's discussion of it, some argue it was a gameplay mechanic, and not actually intended to be copy protection it was one of "Roberta's great ideas'. However, some argue she intended to actually make it copy protection. So who knows...
From memory @daventry ([url]http://www.infamous-quests.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=570[/url]) I'm pretty sure that cutscene happens if you wait for Manannan to leave the second time. It's certainly when he leaves for a trip once.
I'd have to check the notes I put on the wiki, but I seem to recall it might by third trip. After you have used up two of the food items. But you might be right as well.
Also, another change I just remembered while typing that was we had a limit on how many times Manannan could go away before you die. This was to remove the dead-end where you can feed Manannan all your food and then not be able to progress.
Technically there is a limit in the original game. Once you run out of food you die, he will kill you upon the 5th time he asks for food (or at least the second time you refuse to give him food (this could make it six times he asks for food), assuming you haven't received the minor 'warning punishment' first earlier in the game).
At least one of the remakes does away with this, by adding a never ending source of food at the Bear's House IIRC.
-
How far did you get into the Gold Edition before you decided to cancel it?
Was it AGDI that made a cutscene to the House of Mordack with Manannan.
Daventry, I'm not sure anyone answered this question for you. It's at the end of the IA/IQ version of the game, but only if you got 100% of the points IIRC.
-
Yeah, it's the full point ending. Sorry, I missed that. AGDI added the never-ending food supply. A neat little workaround I thought.
KQ3 Gold was pretty much done, it probably needed a few more bits and pieces but by and large it was done. The spell system (a Freddy Pharkas clone basically) needed a lot more testing. A few pieces of the work we did has been reused in Order of the Thorne, the Rosella sprites are now a shop keeper, there's some fishermen we added to Port Bruce that are reused. The main Gwydion sprites were all redone and are being used in the upcoming OOTT : Fortress of Fire. We've not made a "game" out of KQ3 Gold but there's enough used now in other projects that it would require a lot of work to get it out. Actually, now I think about it, the interior of the store from KQ3 Gold was used as the basis for a shop in QFI.
-
Oh, I'm just fucking with @Lambonius (http://www.infamous-quests.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=12) too. He knows that! In retrospect I'd have done the spell system differently, more in line with what we had planned in Gold but, shit happens!
-
I decided to Google Chamber Pot since i never realized as to what it is when playing KQ3 through the Years, i cannot believe Roberta Williams would put something like that in a Game. Even Manannan says he's Chamber Pot needs cleaning, gross. Ye Old Toilet.
-
LOL, I knew what it was when I first played. I was young too. I think its included for the 'humor' factor. It has one of those joke comments, like "What a way to make a living".
Wrinkling your nose in disgust, you throw the smelly contents of the chamber pot out the open window. What a way to make a living!"
Many of the jobs, and most of the punishments also included a pun or joke either in the narration or from Manannan's comments. The game actually has quite a bit of humor in it.
-
Yeah, it's the full point ending. Sorry, I missed that. AGDI added the never-ending food supply. A neat little workaround I thought.
KQ3 Gold was pretty much done, it probably needed a few more bits and pieces but by and large it was done. The spell system (a Freddy Pharkas clone basically) needed a lot more testing. A few pieces of the work we did has been reused in Order of the Thorne, the Rosella sprites are now a shop keeper, there's some fishermen we added to Port Bruce that are reused. The main Gwydion sprites were all redone and are being used in the upcoming OOTT : Fortress of Fire. We've not made a "game" out of KQ3 Gold but there's enough used now in other projects that it would require a lot of work to get it out. Actually, now I think about it, the interior of the store from KQ3 Gold was used as the basis for a shop in QFI.
Seriously, if it was at that point, why was it cancelled? Stopped by Activision?
If not, why not just finish it up at some point, when you get some free time?
Now OOTT, that's more or less built upon the locations and ideas that you were going to include in King's Quest: Kingdom of Sorrow? At least some of the artwork looks very familiar.
Is there any chance you'd be willing to release some of the design ideas that were going to go into the cancelled Kingdom of Sorrow, and put them up on the wiki's page for that project? For history's sake?
-
Because we went commercial and we can't be producing illegal games, hence the distinction between Infamous Adventures and the incorporated Infamous Quests, while trying to make money off other original titles. It blurs the line too much. The writing had been on the wall since Activision became the dominant partner, at the time TellTale had the KQ rights and it was obvious that there was interest in a commercial sense from Activision to commercially do something with them. We always flew under the radar with our games but we wouldn't have ever got a fan licence (they stopped issuing those) and they're not good enough quality to sell commercially, and to protect their property they would quite rightly C&D us.
And the other reasons are commercial. Putting the legal issues aside, releasing KQ3 Gold does nothing for us - it's not going to introduce new fans to adventure games or us, and AGDI released their version so there's now three versions of the same game for people to play with. (And with free time I'd rather be working on a game that I could sell and make a little money from! Sorry to be blunt but that's the truth of it. You can only make free games for so long before you either have to admit you can make a game once a decade part-time or you do it full-time and sell them.)
As for KOS, there is zero plot, ideas or programming from that in OOTT. A couple of the locations were used, but those have been updated as well. There's not really any design ideas from KOS that you can't get from reading the book, it was pretty much a direct copy.
-
What exactly was the village with the giant tree in the center with the hedge around it? Or the Dinosaur creature? Or Graham stripped down to his briefs? I don't remember those locations or ideas in Kingdom of Sorrow.
https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=b33YVcLiNoqA8QfRuZHIDA&gws_rd=ssl#q=Kingdom+of+sorrow+game (https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=b33YVcLiNoqA8QfRuZHIDA&gws_rd=ssl#q=Kingdom+of+sorrow+game)
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/King's_Quest:_Kingdom_of_Sorrow_(Infamous_Adventures) (http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/King's_Quest:_Kingdom_of_Sorrow_(Infamous_Adventures))
-
Meh, it's been so long since I read the book (and it was so bad I've tried to forget that I did - although not as bad as the Rosella one) that I don't really remember. We probably added in a town to flesh it out somewhat so there's a central location for the hero to work from.
-
Heh, I was wondering if you were merging creatures an plot ideas from the other two books at least for dinosaur thing. Looks a bit like a "Slok".
See No Weevil was a more 'non-linear' story that worked around a central town hub. Quite a bit takes place in the Town of Daventry for example.
Kingdom of Sorrow on the other hand was a more linear 'journey' akin to King's Quest 5. The town only really appears during one chapter, and he's there all but ten minutes, before he's heading off to the Old Woods. The rest of the story is traveling east into remote wilderness.
The only other possible place of 'civilization' might be the throne room of the woodfaeries where the faery king resides, and sends Graham on his quest to the east.
One would probably have to do a lot of changes though to make a proper adventure game out of the story, and flesh out more puzzles. Because of its very linear nature.
See No Weevil is quite a bit more whimsical in some ways, and probably had more of feel to the A Knight To Remember if anything. With lots of silly things going on, and potential for using the town and castle as central hubs for the puzzles.
-
Heh, I was wondering if you were merging creatures an plot ideas from the other two books at least for dinosaur thing. Looks a bit like a "Slok".
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we were doing. The plot we had in mind was a fairly loose adaptation of KOS, with lots of additions we thought would be fun and interesting, including sloks. One of the gameplay elements that we had planned that would have been interesting was the ability to gain different companion characters, each with their own special ability that could be used like an item to solve certain puzzles. Kind of like the way Sam uses Max in Hit the Road, except you'd need to have the right companion at the right time to solve certain puzzles.
-
So a bit like the Goat in KQ1?
It's too bad you can't convert it into a non-KQ game, but make it an homage to KQ games (your own take the fractured fairy tale genre)! It does sound like a lot of fun, and if change the names, change the characters (places, peoples, etc), change the graphics bit so you can legally make it. Turn it into a commercial game.
I'd certainly buy it!
-
It's too bad you can't convert it into a non-KQ game, but make it an homage to KQ games (your own take the fractured fairy tale genre)! It does sound like a lot of fun, and if change the names, change the characters (places, peoples, etc), change the graphics bit so you can legally make it. Turn it into a commercial game.
I'd certainly buy it!
That's basically what Order of the Thorne is. :)
-
Well yeah and no. There's zero of the plot or story from KOS left in OOTT so it's not so much a conversion to an original setting as it is a new story using a portion of the existing graphical assets.
I'd also suggest it's more a KQ "mood" than a fairy tale game. I certainly didn't think of any specific fairy tales or lore when I was writing the story for it, I just worked out an over-arching plot that worked with the backgrounds I put together into a map. There are fairy's but they don't follow any particular lore or story. I also don't recall any additional companions besides Shaolan the Bard, which was what the ICS was about. Maybe there were more than were never developed further.
-
I also don't recall any additional companions besides Shaolan the Bard, which was what the ICS was about. Maybe there were more than were never developed further.
There was at least one other--the giant character. Duncan, I think? Dunstan maybe? The name was something like that. His ability was his massive strength--the bard had the ability to charm characters and creatures. I don't recall if we had more than that, but those two were fully designed from an art and plot standpoint.
-
Dunstan - his artwork was partly designed. There's basic walk cycles and an axe swinging animation. I didn't realise he was going to be another companion character. There was certainly never any coding done that indicated that as the companion GUI was pictures that related to the bard - although the Bard abilities were only partly coded. That basics were there and I think it was implemented for one or two situations, probably to test things.
-
Shaolan the Bard
I think that's Shallan. But you know the world could use more kung fu, or ninja adventure games.
-
Shaolin the Bard is a game I'd play the crap out of.
Bt
-
Shaolin the Bard is a game I'd play the crap out of.
Bt
Yes please make that game! Can he be a practitioner of the drunken monkey fist style? Could be a lot of humor in that! Like I say the world needs more kung fu adventure games, or even RPGs!