Author Topic: Suggestions  (Read 11497 times)

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Draven

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Suggestions
« on: June 16, 2012, 09:08:39 PM »
I wasn't sure where to post this, I've already pre-ordered the game and I loved the demo but I wanted to make a few quick suggestions and thoughts on the game.

-Is there some way to make a skip animation button? This game practically begs to be replayed with the numerous ways that puzzles can be tackled and the different character classes but as I'm playing it's kinda boring to have to see the same animations from characters play out before I can take control of my character.

-After being assigned a puzzle, can it be changed so that we can be reminded of a task?

-I don't know if it was just me but the detection area of some items should be increased. For example, the fishing pole was in clear sight and I kept trying to click on it but the game thought I was trying to click on the river.

-Items in areas should be better indicated. (I had no idea where the helm was, and it didn't look like anything was there and the same went for the shot glass)

Other than that, I thought the demo was fantastic and I'm loving the game so far. I didn't expect anything less than solid quality work from your team and I hope this project is a rousing success for you.

Side Questions:

Obviously, this game takes inspiration from Quest for Glory but was there a reason why you didn't have the character classes chosen at the start of the game, and why wasn't there a bigger emphasis on the allocation and build-up of experience points for different character traits? 

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 09:18:32 PM »
Quote
Obviously, this game takes inspiration from Quest for Glory but was there a reason why you didn't have the character classes chosen at the start of the game, and why wasn't there a bigger emphasis on the allocation and build-up of experience points for different character traits? 

As per standard RPG fare, experience will be built up for the various statistics in the real game. For the demo, the only stats that can change would be the combat related ones (and the one for climbing) but as you can only fight one monster it probably doesn't move too much.

As for the character class, it's simply a creative decision. We like the idea of your actions determining your path. There's really no deeper meaning or answer than that!
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Blackthorne

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 09:42:49 PM »
Hey Draven!  Thanks for the support and the compliments.  I'll try to add to what my esteemed collegue, Klytos, has already said.

I wasn't sure where to post this, I've already pre-ordered the game and I loved the demo but I wanted to make a few quick suggestions and thoughts on the game.

-Is there some way to make a skip animation button? This game practically begs to be replayed with the numerous ways that puzzles can be tackled and the different character classes but as I'm playing it's kinda boring to have to see the same animations from characters play out before I can take control of my character.

You can press 'esc' to skip the scenes in the beginning.

Quote
-After being assigned a puzzle, can it be changed so that we can be reminded of a task?

I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean there.  Can you give me a specific example?

Quote
-I don't know if it was just me but the detection area of some items should be increased. For example, the fishing pole was in clear sight and I kept trying to click on it but the game thought I was trying to click on the river.

Yep - done and done.  We're working to ensure there's not huge pixel hunts in the game.

Quote
-Items in areas should be better indicated. (I had no idea where the helm was, and it didn't look like anything was there and the same went for the shot glass)

Well, regarding the helm - you should investigate the body - the head falls of into the stump!  Take a look into the stump.  The first rule of adventure games is to explore everything, and make sure you've investigated.... twice.  We try to make things as intuitive as possible, without constantly holding you hand?  Why?  Because we respect your skill as a player, and your powers of deductive reasoning.  This is us saying "Hey!  Adventure game fans are sharper than most!"


Thanks for the feedback - AND the kind words.  It's working with the fans like you that will enable us to make the best game possible.

Talk to you soon!


Bt
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Draven

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 10:51:17 PM »
Wow! Thanks for the speedy replies.  :) 

When I meant being reminded of a task, I was unable to talk to a person who gave me a quest and because I had saved and came back at a later time I didn't exactly remember what I was doing. So, I thought it would be cool if you could talk to the people again to remind you of a quest or have a log book or something.

As for the helm puzzle, I suppose I misread the intial description. I tried replaying it again and I can definitely see I where went wrong. Sorry about that!

 

Blackthorne

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2012, 11:51:17 AM »
I gotcha now - yes, say if you accepted Ian's quest, when you go back and talk to him, he reminds you what you're doing.  Yes, I think that should be easy enough to do!


Bt
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Draven

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 10:40:55 PM »
Thanks again, and congrats on reaching your goal! You guys are awesome!

smaug

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2012, 05:02:47 AM »
I just wanted to pay my respects to the voice acting, I think it is top notch, highest class and one of the best I have heard in ANY game, period!
And among the excellent voices, I think the narrator shines the brightest, I REALLY REALLY like the way he enhances the whole gaming experience! Are any of the voice actors professionals, by any chance..?

The portraits are excellent and most likely the best I have seen in any such game, which utilises talking portraits! Wonderful characters, all the way!

The only nitpicking, from my side, is that the portraits occasionally stop talking, while their voices still keep at it. It is not much of an issue, but I would have liked to see the portrait animation and the voice, a bit more synchronised.
And, if there was a way to implement lip synching, that would really be the sugar on the cherry on the cream on the icing on the top of an, already, VERY sweet tasting cake..!

sickfiction

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2012, 08:19:12 AM »
Smaug, we are talking about lipsyncing the entire game. At the moment, the engine lipsyncs to the text, so the longer the line, the more the mouth moves about. Syncing to audio is a huge job, and too huge for the demo to be released on time, but you might get lucky for the release, it would be a very nice thing to have.
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wojteksal

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 09:07:07 PM »
I've noticed a kind of bug in the Sorcerer-storyline. If you poke the head with the sword, it starts bleeding, but stops when you try to use any objects on it. So after coming back with the mug it was impossible to collect the blood, Roehm refused to stab it again and the game got stuck. I was forced to replay the whole Sorcerer-path again.

chucklas

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 10:03:49 PM »
Cool, thanks for the bug report.  As it was a demo, it was bound to have a couple!
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Lupin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 11:03:32 AM »
When I first saw this title, my first thought was suggestions for future quests in the game :P

Goatmeal

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 07:57:49 PM »
Greetings, all.

While playing the demo, I thought of two suggestions:

1. Ensure all icons have a "hot-spot" dot, not just the inventory items -- but I believe I read elsewhere that you were already working on it.

2. Once you have read a topic, perhaps make the topic color a medium-brown.  That way, it signifies that you have already read it, and the remaining or new/resulting topics in black will really stand out.  Of course, you can go back and re-read them again if you like.
     Not sure how much programming it will take to keep track of what's been read/'clicked-on' already... perhaps assigning a variable and changing the value? ( var = 0 --> var = 1 ? )  Been a while since I did any programming, and know nothing about AGS.

Goatmeal

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 10:55:49 PM »
To reduce the pixel hunt / "click everywhere" trap inherent to point-and-click games:

Add little specific descriptions of the area, and don't be afraid to have the narrator subtley point out things to the player -- things the designer wants the player to know.


When Sierra's AGI games consisted of large, blocky pixels, they couldn't put in the amount of detail that a 320x200/240 faux-VGA game can now.  They would give a general description of the room or screen, and add a bit of guiding info at the end, like:

"There is a table in the far corner and wooden chest at the foot of the bed."

or

"The ship's navigation computer is currently off-line."


As others have noted elsewhere, this convention was a hold over from the prior generation of text-only adventure games.  It wasn't really a necessity for the newly-evolving graphical adventures, because you could now actually "see" the table and chest in the room, or that the thing with the blinking lights was a computer.  However, because of the limited graphic capabilities, the inclusion of the added text by the 'narrator' in the general room description ensured that the table and chest or the navigation computer were items worthy of further attention by the player.

As game graphics evolved and screens became more detailed and realistic, it turned into the equivalent of visual overload -- if you could see it, perhaps you could even interact with it!  Even more so if you were stuck and couldn't quite 'getting' what the designer expected of you to solve the puzzle or make progress.  Without gentle prodding in the text descriptions, the game would often turn into a pixel hunt, with the player desperately searching in vain for the one item amongst the 'visual clutter' that is truly interactive...

**********
For example:
**********

In the screen with the blacksmith:

--Clicking around the screen gives the generic description of the blacksmith's cottage.  You could also add to that:

"There appears to be some broken glass near the fence."

(Adding adding some bits of glass to the scenery would help sell the concept.)

Clicking on the fence could yield the description of something like:

"The Smith's back fence looks to be the favorite target of bar patrons to hurl their empty shot glasses as they drunkenly stumble home in the night."

or

"It appears that a number of rowdy bar patrons have chosen the Smith's fence as the target for their empty shot glasses -- or this is the handiwork of one determined imbiber!"


This would help explain the action that could be performed (throwing a glass), and where the item could be found (bar patrons with glasses --> glass is found in bar).


Of course, if this is indeed a nightly occurrence, that would mean the Smith could know exactly what the sound is and immediately go to the fence, not run off-screen.  BUT if it's a rare occurrence or the Smith is usually asleep when it happens, then he might run off screen in search of the unfamiliar noise...

It's certainly something that a savvy designer / writer can work around if it's decided to be an issue.

**********

Again, in the screen with the blacksmith:

-- When the Smith is present with his tongs, he's positioned in front of them.  The tongs are only able to be seen for the few fleeting moments when the Smith fires the metal.  Not sure if that's a deliberate design choice, but you can either reposition the tongs slightly to the left OR...

...you could add to the Smith's description:
"Looks like he's really giving that iron a beating.  A pair of tongs rest against the large tub of water."

**********

In the forest screen with the skeleton and suit of armor:

-- Clicking around the screen gives the generic description of
"You're surrounded by foliage, rocks and trees.  It's a forest, after all."

You could also add to that:
"A lifeless skeleton lies motionless against a rock -- hopefully, it will remain that way."

This could help people know that there is something that can be further inspected on that screen, especially since some demo players have stated not exploring here during the day or early evening, and it was too dark to make out at night...

**********

By adding a small line or two, it can help guide the player or give them a nudge as to what needs to be done.

(Sorry for rambling on here.)

█

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 04:21:02 AM »
Can you make a feature like in Kings Quest when clicking the character to go to a location on the screen, I can press the 'Escape' key and that character would go there instantly without have to watch the animation of the character walking there regardless of the speed setting. This would definitely save me a few seconds each time, but it adds up.

By the way, I find that the crow in the game is obnoxious and spooky at the same time. Everytime it caws during the daytime or nighttime, I feel like an impending doom is about to happen, whether I am inside the town's gate or outside. I wish someone would make a bow and arrow so that I can shoot it down without lowering the sound FX setting.  ;D

█

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 04:27:22 AM »
@BT: I sent you a direct message several days ago. I'm not sure if the forum notifies you when you receive a message. Something tells me that it does not.

Lupin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2012, 08:01:53 AM »
I can understand what you are saying Goatmeal, but the problem with that is you are essentially telling the player "You need to use this item to solve a puzzle later one".

Goatmeal

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2012, 06:18:14 PM »
I can understand what you are saying Goatmeal, but the problem with that is you are essentially telling the player "You need to use this item to solve a puzzle later one".

True, but while the puzzle is entirely logical, it wasn't entirely obvious.  I found that throwing the glass against a non-descript fence to distract the smith be a little ... "How was I supposed to know to do that?"    ???

And I do realize that this is a demo, not the full-fledged game.  IQ couldn't have possibly put everything into it (full descriptions for everything, lots of items, etc).

Blackthorne

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2012, 06:51:45 PM »
It doesn't really have to be at the fence - it just has to be thrown at, logically, an area that would cause the Blacksmith to look at, and peer off at... instead of just throwing it at the house or something.


Bt
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Goatmeal

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2012, 10:29:11 PM »
It doesn't really have to be at the fence - it just has to be thrown at, logically, an area that would cause the Blacksmith to look at, and peer off at... instead of just throwing it at the house or something.


Hi, BT!

Just playing around this afternoon, I did find a possible bug:

If you use the glass to distract the Smith in the Evening (red sky after the execution but before the Night phase) to get the tongs, the game won't let you leave the Smith screen with the tongs.  It keeps saying you need to finish up what you are doing and replace them.

Blackthorne

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2012, 10:38:20 PM »
Yeah, because you can't take the tongs while the Blacksmith is still there.  You have to find another way to get rid of him to take the tongs for a while...


Bt
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Goatmeal

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2012, 11:31:40 PM »
Yeah, because you can't take the tongs while the Blacksmith is still there.  You have to find another way to get rid of him to take the tongs for a while...

Ah ha!

Which is why you use the OTHER way to distract him -- which causes him to run off screen...

Quite clever, BT!

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2012, 02:02:17 PM »
True, but while the puzzle is entirely logical, it wasn't entirely obvious.  I found that throwing the glass against a non-descript fence to distract the smith be a little ... "How was I supposed to know to do that?"    ???

It's a staple of adventure games and part of the fun. You tend to ignore the "How was I supposed to know how to do that?" when it comes to solving adventure game puzzles. I will admit that there are certain adventure games where the solution to a puzzle makes no logical sense (a certain pie in King's Quest 5 comes to mind), but if you follow the three basic rules to adventure gaming (listed below),  you should be fine.

1.) The Sierra Rule of "Save Early, Save Often"
2.) Take everything not nailed down and if it is nailed down, solve the loose nail puzzle.
3.) Use everything in your inventory on everything else.