Designing Quest For Infamy

[Lambonius]

I know a ton of the puzzles are in the manual, which I DO have (via replacementdocs.com to go with my pirated copy ), but I didn't realize all the riddle answers were as well.

[sickfiction]

I think riddles are the bane of adventure game puzzles, frankly.  Too often, they rely on knowledge of obscure turns of phrase, which are often culture specific.  The ones in Conquest for Camelot were really bad about that, as I recall.  I've actually never even seen them all answered in any walkthrough.  I always had to restore several times and hope that I got a random set of five that I could actually answer or were answered in a walkthrough.  If the clues can't be found in-game, or possibly in a manual, it has no business being there.

I loved the riddles in camelot, I spent weeks figuring them out, writing them down, asking my mom and dad.. I got there eventually and it was an awesome reward to get on top of the Tor after all Arthur had been through... Man that was an awesome game. I might have to play it tomorrow!!

[Jerminator]

I love those puzzles that are inventory based. Combining items, being able to look or turn them in your inventory and maybe catch a clue. A good example is in Skyrim, you find a claw and your not really sure what it's for until you find a door with a bunch of glyphs on it and the claw shape for the key hole. The answer for the glyphs is on the claw itself which you can view in your inventory once you turn it around. Simple but fun to figure out.

[Lambonius]

I liked the attempt at dungeon puzzles in Skyrim--the first time or two we used a claw key was cool, but unfortunately they never came up with anything else.  They just used that same puzzle, along with the rotating-statues-to-match-the-symbols-on-the-walls puzzles over and over again.  I'd have loved to have seen a few physics based puzzles in that game, for example.  The game has the ability to lift and carry items and then drop and stack them wherever you please--THAT would have been a great ability to use to solve weight-based mechanisms or some other such kind of puzzles.  But they never did anything with it--the ability to lift and stack items is just a random ability that is completely useless in the context of the rest of the game.

Ahem, anyway--end of Skyrim rant. 

[sickfiction]

So I was trying to sleep, but thinking about puzzles and I think I got a good one for you:

Roehm has to survive a night in the forest / swamp - some storm or other is coming and has to bed down for the night.

Basically he would have to build a shelter out of stuff in the forest before it becomes night time, so he'd need to chop down a couple of branches, get some hefty ferns, some vines to tie it all together. He'd need to light a fire somehow and maybe even set some sort of booby trap for a monster or some other creature, rambo style with whittled spikes on a tree branch. What you think?

[DrSlash]

Nice one, SF!

This one was inspired by Lamb:
Roehm needs to enter a cave BUT he finds out that he'll need a counterbalance of 6 kilograms to raise a gate which blocks cave's entrance while he only has items which weight 1, 3 and 5 kilos. So he puts the lightest and the heaviest items he carries on mechanism and enters the cave. Inside he realises that he'll need one of the items he left (sword, for example) to proceed, so he takes some useless item which weights 2 kilos (boulder?) from the cave. He leaves items weighting 1, 2 and 3 kilos and gets his sword so he can finish his quest inside the cave.

[Goatmeal]

Nice one, SF!

This one was inspired by Lamb:
Roehm needs to enter a cave BUT he finds out that he'll need a counterbalance of 6 kilograms to raise a gate which blocks cave's entrance while he only has items which weight 1, 3 and 5 kilos. So he puts the lightest and the heaviest items he carries on mechanism and enters the cave. Inside he realises that he'll need one of the items he left (sword, for example) to proceed, so he takes some useless item which weights 2 kilos (boulder?) from the cave. He leaves items weighting 1, 2 and 3 kilos and gets his sword so he can finish his quest inside the cave.

Good one, Dr Slash!

Reminds me of the Datacorder puzzle from SQ6.  I happened to have liked it, but not sure how many else did.  It was more a variation of the common "GAMES Magazine" type of logic puzzle:

"Six people came to dinner.  Each brought a different desert and wore a different colored coat.  Who brought and wore what?  (1) John doesn't like fudge that the person with the brown coat brought..."

[Alaskaban]

a good minigame would go with the game

[Collector]

I think that the best puzzles are ones that are organic to the game. Ones that are more problem solving than puzzle solving. Not just some arbitrary obstacle. I can't think of a single time that, say, a slider puzzle didn't break immersion.

[nidoking]

Love having to take items a long way before you use them, collecting pieces to a puzzle (ie treasure map in MI2) always nice when you need a whole bunch of things for one puzzle like an extension of the beast's head/markus' blood.

I particularly like when items have more than one use in puzzles. Sure, there's more "challenge" in having to find another item to solve that puzzle, but if you've got a knife in your inventory, why not just use it to cut everything that needs cutting? Why not vacuum up five different things at different times? Why throw away an item just because it came in handy? When you get locked inside the cell you just rescued someone from, you'll wish you'd kept the key hidden on your person.

[Lambonius]

Love having to take items a long way before you use them, collecting pieces to a puzzle (ie treasure map in MI2) always nice when you need a whole bunch of things for one puzzle like an extension of the beast's head/markus' blood.

I particularly like when items have more than one use in puzzles. Sure, there's more "challenge" in having to find another item to solve that puzzle, but if you've got a knife in your inventory, why not just use it to cut everything that needs cutting? Why not vacuum up five different things at different times? Why throw away an item just because it came in handy? When you get locked inside the cell you just rescued someone from, you'll wish you'd kept the key hidden on your person.

I agree with the logic of this--however, it can become a problem from a gameplay standpoint.  Whenever I've played games where the same item gets used multiple times for different puzzle solutions, I've always come away from it feeling like the developers just got lazy and weren't being creative enough.  A number of Telltale games in particular have suffered from this problem.  I think there's a sweet spot when it comes to adventure game puzzle logic--you want the solution to be logical enough to make sense, but to be just obscure enough that it isn't apparent right away.  That's often a lot easier said than done. 

[Lupin]

I love those puzzles that are inventory based. Combining items, being able to look or turn them in your inventory and maybe catch a clue. A good example is in Skyrim, you find a claw and your not really sure what it's for until you find a door with a bunch of glyphs on it and the claw shape for the key hole. The answer for the glyphs is on the claw itself which you can view in your inventory once you turn it around. Simple but fun to figure out.

I know what you mean, I remember a fairly simple puzzle in Curse of Monkey Island where one of the pirate barbers you had to recruit wouldn't except a challenge from you unless you insulted him. I remember choosing the various insults in the dialogue options, going through my inventory for ages before noticing the glove. And then the light bulb went on in my head and I thought "You have to insult him". I can see how that particular one skipped by a few people, but it was still a joy to discover.

So yes, inventory type puzzles are among my favourites in adventure games. The only issues I have is when the inventory items take a huge step away from logical use. Whilst I understand that using items in unusual ways is a huge part of adventure games, we have all had those moments where we have solved a puzzle by just clicking on items at random, only to solve it and we think "HOW THE HECK WERE WE SUPPOSE TO WORK THAT OUT".

[Goatmeal]

So yes, inventory type puzzles are among my favourites in adventure games. The only issues I have is when the inventory items take a huge step away from logical use. Whilst I understand that using items in unusual ways is a huge part of adventure games, we have all had those moments where we have solved a puzzle by just clicking on items at random, only to solve it and we think "HOW THE HECK WERE WE SUPPOSE TO WORK THAT OUT".

EXACTLY!  That was my point in the other thread here (or at least the point I was trying to make).

By providing gentle hints, nudges or clues -- but not full-out blatant answers -- the judicious game designer can make the results that much more enjoyable.  It will provide a sense of accomplishment ("I figured it out!"), not frustration ("How was I  supposed to know that?" / "How was I expected to do that?") or disappointment ("Oh, the game just telegraphed/flat-out told me what I needed to do...").

[Blackthorne]

Yeah - striking that balance is something I try to consider at every step with the work that I'm doing.  It's difficult, at times - what can appear to make sense to you may not to someone else.  That's why working with my team, running things by them, bouncing ideas around.... it's a part of the process I really enjoy.

I always liked puzzles that include a lot of different game play elements - talking to characters to get information and clues, searching for items - combining items and interacting with the environment. 


Bt

[Collector]

I always liked puzzles that include a lot of different game play elements - talking to characters to get information and clues, searching for items - combining items and interacting with the environment. 

And that is what makes the challenges organic to the narrative and more of the nature problem solving instead of some random non sequitur unrealistic puzzles.