Infamous Quests
The Games => Quest for Infamy => Topic started by: sickfiction on January 27, 2013, 01:27:35 PM
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Hey guys, James Mulvale, QFI composer here.
When BT first asked me if I'd be interested in scoring Quest for Infamy it was a huge
honour, and almost immediately afterwards made me feel a bit sick. I had written many
many short pieces for different media and TV before but never score an entire game. I was
sure I could do it, but it meant getting a few things straight first.
We talked in depth about styles, and it seemed natural to go down the orchestral route rather than electronic or rock/metal... One thing I really did not want to go down was what
I call 'generic-epic' which is all style and no substance in my opinion. My best example
would be... Ask yourself this question 'Can I hum the tune to Avatar?' go on try... Some
people might be able to, I mean I saw that film twice in the week that it came out.
But a couple of years down the line? Nope I have no idea how that piece of music goes. Same goes with The Dark Knight, or any blockbuster that's been released lately. Can you hum the main theme
even minutes after leaving the theatre? I doubt it. And that's not a criticism of the composers, just more what music has evolved towards in Hollywood in the last handful of years – padding.
Now ask the same question for 'Can I hum the theme for James Bond' or 'Raiders of the
lost Ark' or 'Up.' or 'Jaws' or 'A Fistfull of Dollars' or 'Back to the Future'???
You bet.
The composers here have written a memorable theme that not only encaspulates
the atmosphere and drama on screen, but sticks in your head like an ear-worm.
Now I when I think about video games... If you've played any of the Space Quest series, Monkey Island series, Mario, Sonic the Hedgehog... Musical themes like that are burned into your brain like that Gotye tune is right now.
I'm not claiming to be as good or as qualified as the folks who wrote all the above music,
but it was a starting point for QFI. It HAS to be a memorable tune, or hook. Furthermore
all the main characters / places must have their own memorable theme too (or leitmotif)
which will identify who's on screen, or where Roehm is at the time.
The main theme from the opening sequence of QFI I composed from the middle (I did not know it would be the middle at the time). The happy, major, marching theme took a while to score but when I showed it to the team they all said (to paraphrase) 'Yeah it's nice, but we need something that punches you in the face right from the start.'
After a couple of failed attempts BT said the magic words. 'I want it to sound like a cross between Ride of the Valkyries and the Imperial Death March.'
Gotcha.
So without actually stealing anything, I knew exactly the feeling he was going for and
within 3 hours I'd written over a minute of music which is what you hear when you first
load the game. I didn't know how to end it though and was still pining over my original
theme. Again BT said 'Try sticking them together.' and sent me a crudely edited version of the two themes back to back. Luckily enough, they were both in the
same key, and roughly the same tempo, so by speeding the original theme up a little and
slowing down the new one, I joined the two themes together the wrong way around and they fit like a glove!
http://soundcloud.com/jamesmulvale/qfi (http://soundcloud.com/jamesmulvale/qfi) 'Second' theme at (0:18) 'Original' theme at (1:06)
Once that theme was established, it was like a springboard for everything else. I used little
bits of QFI theme dotted all around the game, sometimes obvious like the Brattle/Fishing scene,
sometimes hidden like the Prospero music - if you listen closely to Prospero's theme, an oboe is playing the main theme's melody over the top of all this dissonant eerie glockenspiel and piano. But
it's there, subliminally.
I'm now writing the rest of the music and have some awesome and challenging themes to
come up with. The Port of Myr, Graveyard themes, Tobacconist themes have already
begun to take shape. I just hope that when you turn your computer off, you will go
outside into the real world and start humming the music to yourself!
Music Cues...
UP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaLegF2hAxI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaLegF2hAxI#)
BTTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMX1_AU1slA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMX1_AU1slA#ws)
JAWS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swMzRlFvKMc# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swMzRlFvKMc#)
RAIDERS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNlMgH2p-Y# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNlMgH2p-Y#)
FISTFUL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDOdaFZg0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDOdaFZg0#)
BOND http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii1tc493bZM#ws)
DARK KNIGHT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1B3Mgklfd0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1B3Mgklfd0#)
AVATAR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaZPF2Co-38# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaZPF2Co-38#)
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Now ask the same question for 'Can I hum the theme for James Bond' or 'Raiders of the
lost Ark' or 'Up.' or 'Jaws' or 'A Fistfull of Dollars' or 'Back to the Future'???
You bet.
Fantastic musical references, and I completely agree, regarding "generic epic". It's interesting, if you take a side journey through musical history, you note that the great orchestral compositions of the Baroque and Classical periods were all commissioned works, generally for a noble, or the monarchy. This was true across the entirety of Europe. For some virtuoso composers, their entire output was commissioned, via "patronage", with the end result being essentially the same. The royalty was able to enjoy something original and grand, and, eventually, commoners were able to, as well (of course, folk and traditional roots are another matter entirely).
However, post-industrialization (and the power of world monarchies diminished by representative government), we see this style of patronage decline, and such complex and expensive works all but vanish (except for academia, and the occasional eccentric whim by old-moneyed families and new-money robber-barons). At some point (those with an actual education in musical history can correct me) it seems that large, complex, epic orchestral works transition into the entertainment space, via live-theater and cinema, as well as advertising. Now, it seems that nearly all large, expensive commissions are related to cinema, television, and interactive media (i.e., video games).
Is sickfiction a modern-day Mozart? A contemporary Chopin?
Ok, I went tad silly there at the end, but my point is that the field of commissioned orchestral works has shifted dramatically. I find it enormously frustrating that the mainstream populous seem to largely regard game sound tracks as less "valid" than other composition (though this is changing, as is the overall impact of the games industry). When the composer (James in this case) takes their craft seriously, they have an opportunity to enrich our lives, if even a little. Really good music is coming from some really talented, criminally underrated, highly creative composers.
For example, check out Ari Pulkkinen of Ari Tunes. His metal/techno scores for the two Shadowgrounds games, and orchestral scores for the two Trine games, are fantastic, and insired. Shadowgrounds is loud, rich, gritty, and hellish... in contrast with Trine, which is lush, layered, and classically whimsical.
What's he best known for? Angry Birds.
I'm not claiming to be as good or as qualified as the folks who wrote all the above music...
Dude. Ken "Music Man of Sierra" Allen wants to perform with you, and share your music because he appreciates the quality of it. You're composing music for a new game by the Two fucking Guys From Andromeda! That's in addition to already authoring an atmospheric background track for the Two Guys that surely played a part in the success of their campaign.
You're there buddy, and yeah, you're that good. Expectations are correspondingly high... ;)
It HAS to be a memorable tune, or hook. Furthermore all the main characters / places must have their own memorable theme too (or leitmotif) which will identify who's on screen, or where Roehm is at the time.
I find myself whistling the hook from the main Volksville Village theme, over and over, recently. I think it because it lends itself well to that sort of idle "brain-wormish stickiness", where you find it looping in your head before you're consciously aware of the fact. This my have something to do with having played both demos many dozens of times...
In fact, your compositions on this project, along with good video game scoring in general, tend to tesselate very well. It must be incredibly challenging to compose with the constraint that it must not begin to suck, even after looping hundreds of times. I can't imagine... and I'm painfully aware when parts of a game score fail to do so.
Again BT said 'Try sticking them together.' and sent me a crudely edited version of the two themes back to back. Luckily enough, they were both in the same key, and roughly the same tempo, so by speeding the original theme up a little and slowing down the new one, I joined the two themes together the wrong way
around and they fit like a glove!
That fact is a huge surprise, and a hell of story! It seriously sounds fictionalized... especially when one listens to the theme itself, and it flows so cohesively. I honestly believed that the composition was intentionally built to shadow (and foreshadow?) the theme of the game itself, the first twenty seconds or so of strings and light-hearted sweetness, followed by the deep horns and percussion, tromping in on it with big stompy boots!
I just hope that ... you will go outside into the real world and start humming the music to yourself!
Heh, success, my friend! Even my little toddler is enamoured with the game so far, not the least of which due to the scoring, which she sings & hums along with in her own way. She's always asking me to see "that Infamy game with the little man walking around the places!" ;D
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Yeah - I enjoy working with James immensely - I, too, am a musician - though not at the compositional caliber of James, but when I have an idea for a theme, I can reference a certain piece of music, or style - or say "Well, I want 8 bars of a minor theme, and can we move it to a major for a B theme...." and he'll come right back, as if we're dancin', and write this amazing music. It's a lot of fun for me, because I get to flex my old musical muscles a bit, and let his genius create it.
Bt
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Bt, are you responsible for the sweet, sweet, metal track at the end of the demo, where Roehm (SPOILERS) stands grimly, Beast's head in hand?
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Haha, I wanted a heavier track - but that was all James doing. He riffed that out himself.
Bt
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Do it heavier, dude! Live, and on your own axe! Include it for us huge metal fans, as a digital extra the DVD (just a FLAC & OGG file or something).
As far as the actual game score, definitely whatever James thinks (he is music director after all) that you and Klytos agree with, is probably best for the game. But as an extra, I'd definitely welcome a dirty, grinding, heavy cover track, something to blast on my cans while coding 8)
You know, during your copious spare time ;)
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I find myself whistling the hook from the main Volksville Village theme, over and over, recently. I think it because it lends itself well to that sort of idle "brain-wormish stickiness", where you find it looping in your head before you're consciously aware of the fact. This my have something to do with having played both demos many dozens of times...
It's definitely not due to overlistening. Before I found the time to play the demo all the way through (and knew where to make the saves so I could actually get there from where I was), there were several mornings when I had an unidentifiable song stuck in my head and couldn't figure out where I'd heard it. That actually happens to me a lot, and I almost always get it in the end, but over the past year or so, it's always been from QFI. This music sticks with you in ways you can't imagine until you've heard it - hours after you stopped playing.
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It's definitely not due to overlistening.
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This music sticks with you in ways you can't imagine until you've heard it - hours after you stopped playing.
Thanks for the confirmation, nidoking!
It's really interesting, the human reaction to music. I just finished reading a book a few months ago, Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicophilia), written by Oliver Sacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks) (it's not new, and it's pop psych, but I highly recommend it). Basically, he's a fairly well known neurologist & brain scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings) who documented assorted observations from patient cases during his career, and after anonymising them, published some of the more astonishing findings. The book isn't thoroughly scientific, so caveat emptor regarding clinical accuracy, but to my knowledge, very little of that particular work has been broadly contested.
Anyway, the point is the amongst all the sounds of the living world, those that we're able to observe as music are treated specially in our brains. It's probably not hugely revelatory to state that shared & emotional experience can affect our memory and perception of a musical piece, nor that conversely, music can have an enormous impact on video game ambiance and atmosphere. That said, I can't say for certain that late nights playing, and replaying the demo don't add emotionally to my remembrance due to my mental state (curiousity and bug-hunting juxtaposed with humor and the frustration/reward tempo of adventure games). I can't disentangle the two.
So, I guess I don't strictly mean overlistening. Rather, it's more like nostalgia, and pleasant nostalgia at that, but for something new that I'd never seen before last summer. It's some mix of what I had as a young adventure gamer discovering the genre, but feels new all over again. Hm. On final thought, I think I've just gone round and round and ended up proving your point :P
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Thanks guys, it is a challenge to write music that loops continuously and not get boring although I think I've worked out a method which works quite well.
It is a combination of making the music long enough (usually over a minute) so that by the time you get to the end of the piece, you have probably moved to a new room, and a new method which I've been implementing lately which shares a resemblance to M.C. Escher's never ending staircase
http://bestthing.flyingpudding.com/images/escher_stair.jpg (http://bestthing.flyingpudding.com/images/escher_stair.jpg)
The musical equivalent being, I 'sneak' a key-change (modulation) in to the music somewhere in the middle, one that you won't notice so much at the time - it will just sound like a nice progression, but it has really changed down a few keys (or up).
This means that when it goes to loop there is a sudden almighty key-change (I try to pick ones that work, rather than unexpected ones.) This whole business means that at the end of the piece it changes key, which keeps it interesting. But it HASN'T changed key, you just think it has, it's really gone back to the start. So the whole build up can start again. Hopefully you will just imagine it being one long piece that continually modulates.
And thanks to S_D for the breakdown and long analysis of my 'essay'. I'm really glad that you are noticing the music. Although it's one of those things, I'm doing my job right if you don't notice it! All the artforms are meant to compliment each other, the background art, the animation, the story, the music, the voices. Nothing should stand out but they should all be equally immersive as to take you on a journey.
And Angry Birds has the catchiest music - ever.
Also, I may consider a full version of the Metal tune if anyone wants to contribute some growling vocals - I can't perform this I'm afraid...
Just an idea :)
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As a fan of movie scores since the late 1970s and computer game scores since the early 1990s, here is something I've always wanted to ask you, Brandon and Isaac:
Is it more difficult to compose a piece of music 4-8 minutes long that doesn't repeat itself so much and can go wherever it takes you (musically), or one that is only 1-1½ minutes long but must tie-in with the intention of repeating?
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All the artforms are meant to compliment each other, the background art, the animation, the story, the music, the voices. Nothing should stand out but they should all be equally immersive as to take you on a journey.
Oh, I've already showered my praise on the rest of the team, for the large immersive world & visual aesthetic. You'd been kind of neglected. Also, I have a penchant for going overboard upon analysis :-[
And Angry Birds has the catchiest music - ever.
No doubt, but I haven't the same interest in listening to it in comparison to his other work. The Trine 2 soundtrack is so good, and I'm loving instrumental work recently for two reasons. Firstly, lyrics can be quite distracting while I'm trying to write code (except death growl, which is more like an instrument, to me), and secondly, I don't have to vet the lyrics before playing them for my little girl. She also digs Apocalyptica for the same reason. I don't want to limit her musical horizons to typical toddler sing-along albums, because I want to establish a broader musical tradition in my household, and also because I can't stand that crap.
Also, I may consider a full version of the Metal tune if anyone wants to contribute some growling vocals - I can't perform this I'm afraid...
There... are... lyrics?! :o
Now I need to find a vocalist for you!
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As a fan of movie scores since the late 1970s and computer game scores since the early 1990s, here is something I've always wanted to ask you, Brandon and Isaac:
Is it more difficult to compose a piece of music 4-8 minutes long that doesn't repeat itself so much and can go wherever it takes you (musically), or one that is only 1-1½ minutes long but must tie-in with the intention of repeating?
I would have to say that writing a 1 minute loop that stays interesting is harder than a longer piece that has a definite end but what's hardest is writing to a specific time. Some of my past clients have asked for things like 'we need 28 seconds that begins slowly, builds around 15s a crescendo at 25s and a tail for a voice over.'
QFI has left me to be fairly free with the timings which has been amazing. Some of the cutscenes are going to be more time related, and I'm hoping for a musical puzzle at some point...
s_d we have no lyrics but if you want to suggest a verse it could make a fun extra or easter egg...
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A puzzle that incorporates different musical cues would be amazing! Or something you have to figure out by recognizing repetitions or changes in the music...wow, yeah--there are a lot of possibilities. Very good idea--and creative! Steve, you should get on that! ;)
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Yeah, I've thought of that, but I'm also thinking of ways to make an alternate puzzle for those who are deaf. Therein lies the rub.
Bt
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Yeah, I've thought of that, but I'm also thinking of ways to make an alternate puzzle for those who are deaf. Therein lies the rub.
Bt
do it in song so it can be a rhyming thing, remember the Captain Rottingham song in MI3? Roehm can have MC competition lol
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A puzzle that incorporates different musical cues would be amazing! Or something you have to figure out by recognizing repetitions or changes in the music...
Ask me about LOOMTM
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A puzzle that incorporates different musical cues would be amazing! Or something you have to figure out by recognizing repetitions or changes in the music...
Ask me about LOOMTM
Aye.
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First time reading this. Wonderfully put, James. I completely agree with your outlook on music. Movie music used to be far more memorable than it is now. Game music too for that matter! Good to see, as I've always expected and seen from what little I've heard so far, that QFI's score will indeed be something special!
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Hey James, I was wondering what kind of software you're using, both in terms of composing as well as sample sets?
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Hey. I use cubase 7 to score the music and I purchased east west quantum leap complete Composer's Collection platinum edition especially for this game. I love the sounds and recommend it to anyone who wants to do this kind of work.
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Back on topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vfqkvwW2fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vfqkvwW2fs)
Finally the world is catching on.
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oh for the love of all things holy
ive heard this in movies just didnt know how bad it really was
i was like isnt that the same score from... etc
yes yes it is .. wtf
temp music ahhh runn runn hisss
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A rebuttal...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXsH88XlKM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXsH88XlKM)
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As a fan of film music since 1977/1978 (specifically science-fiction scores -- my aunt had the Star War soundtrack on 8-track as my first exposure), a few semi-coherent thoughts...
1. Star Wars is 39 years old (2 generations old), and James Bond is 54 years old (2.7 generations old). Even the first Harry Potter movie is 15 years old. They are part of the public/pop-culture consciousness. In that respect, the Marvel franchise is still relatively young and covers a WIDE variety of different films; I'm not commenting on their musicality, and you could say there's little carry-over of themes within each sub-franchise (Iron Man movies, Captain America movies, etc.).
2. The above (non-Marvel) movies were written with the Wagnerian leitmotif in mind -- recurring themes linked to people, relationships, and actions.
3. For many movies today, the music is merely sonic wallpaper.
4. The video rebuttal is quite right; at a movie music website I browse, many forum contributors there detest and blame Hans Zimmer and his various acolytes & proteges for the "sad" state of what passes for "film music" these days.
5. Would thematic music be better for the current crop of movies? Probably, but this is where we are at in the current "evolution" of film music.
6. The concern over the lack of "hummable" themes in the popular Marvel movie franchise is a bit overwrought, IMHO. MUST it have better music, for what it is? Silly moving pictures about superheroes?
As one forum contributor mentioned, the music serves the movie; the movie does not serve the music...
7. Even if they are not blatantly repeated, there are musical themes in the Marvel movies -- if you know where to look for them. Though there was no specific theme or main title of which to speak, I bought the score for "Guardians of the Galaxy" because it has a nice number of one-off themes.
I also like the Transformers scores; Steve Jablonksy (a Zimmer protege) has a nice heroic Autobot theme, among others.
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A rebuttal...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXsH88XlKM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXsH88XlKM)
verry interestingggg
very
cheers mate
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The "rebuttal" only adds more and more reasons why modern filmscore is bland and unmemorable. Having said that there are some exceptions. Jonny greenwood's scores from there will be blood or the master and also the movie "birdman" has extremely original if not particularly memorable melodies...
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As technology makes things easier and quicker, people tend to be more lazy about the finished product, and readily accept the limitations of current technology, rather than work on overcoming them.
(...like from the video: percussive and non-thematic music is quick and easy, while replicating "traditional" movie or classical music is hard!)
As Dr. Walter Gibbs famously said in Tron (1982): "Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop."
Also, while technology is the great equalizer (Anyone Can Do It!™), most of the people who make videos / music / games / art are simply making a lot of stuff that just isn't very good...
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I totally agree technology makes people lazy instead of allowing them to be even more creative. But I can assure you that when writing music for infamous quests, I worked hard on every note. If I needed to cut and paste a section, I made sure that variations were made or new layers added (or taken out). The instant gratification of hearing my written music played back by an orchestral library is easy to get memorized by. I strive for originality in my music and I hope I come across as having a memorable melody or two
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I totally agree technology makes people lazy instead of allowing them to be even more creative. But I can assure you that when writing music for infamous quests, I worked hard on every note. If I needed to cut and paste a section, I made sure that variations were made or new layers added (or taken out). The instant gratification of hearing my written music played back by an orchestral library is easy to get memorized by. I strive for originality in my music and I hope I come across as having a memorable melody or two
You, my friend, have nothing to worry about. Your dedication to quality shines through with each note, melody, and theme you have created. Thank you for that.
And not a week goes by that I don't listen to both IQ scores for QFI and OOTT:TKC ! :)
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Ok, let's take Batman Begins. That movie is 11 years old. Can you hum the theme from that movie?
And I don't think not having a hummable theme for a "silly moving picture about superheroes" is something to let slide. If anything it's all the MORE reason to have hummable themes. Spiderman. Superman, for goodness' sake. Tim Burton Batman. Even Joel Schumacher Batman! All memorable themes. Superheroes are prime candidates for hummable themes! "Silly motion pictures" in general are prime candidates for hummable themes! Even the new Wonder Woman has a theme, not as interesting as it could be, but hummable nonetheless and recognizable. And it was written by Hans Zimmer, no less. So I don't buy that argument. Even The Mask, a silly comedy about a mask that turns Jim Carrey into a cartoon human, has a memorable score (one of my favourites actually!).
I also completely don't buy the argument that these other movie themes are memorable because they're older. Besides the Batman Begins example, these movies themes were instantly recognizable the moment I watched them for the first time. They instantly snagged my ears and I was humming them after the movies were over the first time I watched them and have stayed with me ever since.
As far as music is concerned in Hollywood (and the games industry), the ball has been dropped and standards have been lowered, make no bones about it. It's just what has happened.
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Ok, let's take Batman Begins. That movie is 11 years old. Can you hum the theme from that movie?
No, but that's only because I haven't watched that particular trilogy yet; I have 'em on DVD, but have never gotten around to watching them. ;)
And I don't think not having a hummable theme for a "silly moving picture about superheroes" is something to let slide. If anything it's all the MORE reason to have hummable themes. Spiderman. Superman, for goodness' sake. Tim Burton Batman. Even Joel Schumacher Batman! All memorable themes. Superheroes are prime candidates for hummable themes! "Silly motion pictures" in general are prime candidates for hummable themes! Even the new Wonder Woman has a theme, not as interesting as it could be, but hummable nonetheless and recognizable. And it was written by Hans Zimmer, no less. So I don't buy that argument. Even The Mask, a silly comedy about a mask that turns Jim Carrey into a cartoon human, has a memorable score (one of my favourites actually!).
The Mask is one of my favorite scores, too.
Yes, superhero movies SHOULD be heroic in all aspects, but why all the hullabaloo if they're not (aside from the lower quality/standards argument)? This just goes back to the "easy/lazy/common denominator/group think" of today's modern movie industry.
You're pointing out that you can find themes even in newer music from the 2000s–2010s, which I also said -- you just have to look for them. Most people don't want to or don't care.
And for the movies from the 1970s–1990s to which you're referring, this leads me to...
I also completely don't buy the argument that these other movie themes are memorable because they're older. Besides the Batman Begins example, these movies themes were instantly recognizable the moment I watched them for the first time. They instantly snagged my ears and I was humming them after the movies were over the first time I watched them and have stayed with me ever since.
I maintain they are memorable because of the musical sensibilities OF THE AGE whence they were composed. Hearing music like that repetitively for 30–40 years ad nauseam doesn't hurt, though.
As far as music is concerned in Hollywood (and the games industry), the ball has been dropped and standards have been lowered, make no bones about it. It's just what has happened.
Yep, tru' dat. The evolution/devolution of film and game music: sonic wallpaper.
Looking forward to hearing YOUR music for the Mage's Initiation! KQ3R is a favorite of mine.
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No, but that's only because I haven't watched that particular trilogy yet; I have 'em on DVD, but have never gotten around to watching them. ;)
Oh, you really should. They're quite good.
Yes, superhero movies SHOULD be heroic in all aspects, but why all the hullabaloo if they're not (aside from the lower quality/standards argument)? This just goes back to the "easy/lazy/common denominator/group think" of today's modern movie industry.
"Besides?" That's the entire problem for me. There is nothing besides. I consider it a big enough issue on its own. Obviously you don't, I guess. It's a dilution of the arts for purely mechanical purposes to generate a shallow reaction. It's not just a selfish need to want better music to listen to (although that's part of it, sure), it's the fact that art as a whole suffers when standards are dropped, both on the side of the artists and the audience/consumers/whatever. We should be raising standards not dropping them. Art should always push the envelope, and if it's not then it at least should have everything put into it on the part of the creator. Half-hearted attempts and contributions aren't worth much. It lowers the standards and, by extension, the expectations of society. Why do that when we are capable of so much more? I think this is borderline dangerous in the bigger picture where society starts believing it's not capable of anything better when it absolutely is.
I know good art is not going anywhere altogether because of this problem, but it sure is putting unnecessary obstacles in our path. Think of the dark ages, only for music. What kind of technology would we have without the catholic church burning scientist heretics at the stake?
You're pointing out that you can find themes even in newer music from the 2000s–2010s, which I also said -- you just have to look for them. Most people don't want to or don't care.
Yeah, it's there. But like I also said it's no where near as interesting as the Superman or Batman themes. It's just a repeating 7-note riff alternating between 3 notes.
And for the movies from the 1970s–1990s to which you're referring, this leads me to...
I maintain they are memorable because of the musical sensibilities OF THE AGE whence they were composed. Hearing music like that repetitively for 30–40 years ad nauseam doesn't hurt, though.
Musical sensibilities were better back then.
Yep, tru' dat. The evolution/devolution of film and game music: sonic wallpaper.
Yes. And sonic wallpaper = garbage. It's like overusing CGI, or typecasting actors, or boom-chick pop music. It's lazy, repetitive, and boring. Doesn't do anything to push the envelope or give me hope for truly moving art.
Looking forward to hearing YOUR music for the Mage's Initiation! KQ3R is a favorite of mine.
Thanks! I hope it reaches my own level of standards for other people lol. I did my best anyway, which is all I can do and all I should do. I'm currently enjoying Quest For Infamy's score right now as I finally play through it for the first time after ending my first Mage's Initiation beta test playthrough. So props, @sickfiction (http://www.infamous-quests.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3) ! Nice work from what I'm hearing so far.
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Yes, superhero movies SHOULD be heroic in all aspects, but why all the hullabaloo if they're not (aside from the lower quality/standards argument)? This just goes back to the "easy/lazy/common denominator/group think" of today's modern movie industry.
"Besides?" That's the entire problem for me. There is nothing besides. I consider it a big enough issue on its own. Obviously you don't, I guess. It's a dilution of the arts for purely mechanical purposes to generate a shallow reaction. It's not just a selfish need to want better music to listen to (although that's part of it, sure), it's the fact that art as a whole suffers when standards are dropped, both on the side of the artists and the audience/consumers/whatever. We should be raising standards not dropping them. Art should always push the envelope, and if it's not then it at least should have everything put into it on the part of the creator. Half-hearted attempts and contributions aren't worth much. It lowers the standards and, by extension, the expectations of society. Why do that when we are capable of so much more? I think this is borderline dangerous in the bigger picture where society starts believing it's not capable of anything better when it absolutely is.
I know good art is not going anywhere altogether because of this problem, but it sure is putting unnecessary obstacles in our path. Think of the dark ages, only for music. What kind of technology would we have without the catholic church burning scientist heretics at the stake?
Of course people should be -- and can be -- much more than we often present ourselves to be (I feel like Kirk or Picard defending humanity here), but when we don't, it's not necessarily the end of the world; we can't always be 110% all the time. This might simply be a period where we are in a trough, not a crest.
And, from my perspective, there's not much a "non-musical" fellow like me can do about it, except with the power of my wallet: there HAS been a revolution (of sorts) over the last 10-15 years in the realm of movie scores being release on niche labels, often with limited production runs.
I cannot tell you -- well, actually, I can -- how many complete scores I have bought that were previously unavailable for movies going as far back as the 1960s (about where my own musical interests in most movies stops), with most purchases from the 1980s / early 1990s.
Will that make a difference? Show that there is an interest in movie scores with themes and melodies and "hummable" tunes? Probably not -- a small niche group of soundtrack fans buying from even smaller group of niche soundtrack labels won't make much of an impact...
But I'll keep buying.
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I didn't say there was much that most people can do. I just think it sucks.